Brake boosters and hydraulic clutch master cylinders

[Gplayer]

Long story short, I need the space to mount a hydraulic clutch master cylinder on the firewall of my 80 pin spider. Looking at it, I see no way to do that with the factory brake booster. So far my brainstorming has led me to either replace the brake booster with a much smaller unit (i’ve heard Ford Ranger BB’s are small) or get rid of it all together and go manual brakes. Not opposed to either one, unless there’s a way to mount a clutch master without changing anything about the brake booster. Any ideas? I’m open to anything that could save me time or money.

[DieselSpider]

Are you really sure you want the added expense and complexity of converting to hydraulic? I greatly prefer dealing with the old reliable cable that lasts for years and costs less than $20 and can be replaced in a few minutes over the hydraulic ones.

You may want to look into a clutch master cylinder with a remote reservoir which is better suited to tight locations such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/LuK-LMC346-Clutc ... 5610&psc=1

[Gplayer]

I have to convert to hydraulic. The transmission I’m using will require it. I had planned on useing a remote resevoir master, but even so I dont think there is room. I’d have to mount the pushrod further down on the arm, right where the bottom of the booster is on the firewall.

[baltobernie]

I've detailed my conversion to manual brakes on this thread:
http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic ... 6&start=15
Its been several years since doing this mod, and I've had no issues. There are O. E. remote boosters (I think it is Ford, maybe Thunderbird) and smaller aftermarket (Willwood) M/C's available, if you'd like to go that route.

[DieselSpider]

Hopefully the slave cylinder is not mounted inside the transmission with the input shaft going through the center of it. I've had to replace the one in my wife's car numerous times and when the slave leaks and fails it ruins the clutch by leaking all over the clutch turning what used to be a less than $20 clutch cable failure into into a $1,300 major expense (front wheel drive). I have really come to despise these types of hollow slave cylinders mounted inside the bell housing.

To date its failed twice in less than 100,000 miles so instead of now just installing the second clutch I am part ways towards shelling out for a fourth. And this is despite flushing out the fluid in the clutch hydraulics system regularly.

[Gplayer]

Hopefully the slave cylinder is not mounted inside the transmission with the input shaft going through the center of it. I've had to replace the one in my wife's car numerous times and when the slave leaks and fails it ruins the clutch by leaking all over the clutch turning what used to be a less than $20 clutch cable failure into into a $1,300 major expense (front wheel drive). I have really come to despise these types of hollow slave cylinders mounted inside the bell housing.

To date its failed twice in less than 100,000 miles so instead of now just installing the second clutch I am part ways towards shelling out for a fourth. And this is despite flushing out the fluid in the clutch hydraulics system regularly.

I actually am considering using a concentric throwout bearing since I am worried about transmission tunnel clearance. I’ve never had an issue with them, and we almost exclusively use them on high hp race cars at work. Sounds like a problematic oem issue. Also I wont be putting near that many miles on it.

[DieselSpider]

My wife's car has the GM 2.2 liter Ecotech engine with their 5 speed trans-axle however my neighbor had the same issue when the hollow slave cylinder failed in his rear wheel drive Mazda along with other acquaintances with their Fords so not limited to one maker just the type of system in general.

With the slave mounted on the outside of the bell housing its still a more costly and complex system however does not require breaking apart the engine and transmission to replace a leaking slave and when an external slave fails it generally does not ruin a perfectly good clutch.

For a street car I have come to prefer the simpler, easier to repair and more cost effective old time systems. Perhaps I have a different perspective since I live in Florida where my Turbo Diesel Franken Spider can be my daily driver most of the year.

[Gplayer]

I suppose I am of a different mindset than you. I do not mind splitting a transmission and engine to replace a slave cylinder, however, I also make everything I touch easy to get to and work on, I build and maintain road race cars for a living and it’s necessary in that field. I’m not here to argue about whether a concentric throwout bearing is the right choice or not, if I do not have the tunnel clearence for an external slave than a concentric will be my only choice.

[DieselSpider]

Time is the critical issue for me and though I am equipped to handle a rear wheel drive in a few hours paying to take a front drives suspension apart to service a clutch slave hidden inside the bell housing is insanely expensive. There would have to be absolutely no other way to get it done before I'd go the internal slave cylinder route. Mine though is a daily driver so being able to do a roadside replacement of the clutch cable in a few minutes instead of spending hours in the shop is a very big attraction for me especially since that part is locally available for cheap. An internal clutch slave just does not fit that model.

If the car was just a novelty for my amusement then it would probably be another matter but even then I really hate internal slave cylinders. I'd rather spend the extra time required to service them out driving or doing something else even if I had a full lift in my garage.

Have you considered using the clutch cable to activate the master cylinder for the clutch? You could mount the cylinder on the fender and the reservoir where its easy to get to without having to deal with a brake compromise.

[Gplayer]

Time is the critical issue for me and though I am equipped to handle a rear wheel drive in a few hours paying to take a front drives suspension apart to service a clutch slave hidden inside the bell housing is insanely expensive. There would have to be absolutely no other way to get it done before I'd go the internal slave cylinder route. Mine though is a daily driver so being able to do a roadside replacement of the clutch cable in a few minutes instead of spending hours in the shop is a very big attraction for me especially since that part is locally available for cheap. An internal clutch slave just does not fit that model.

If the car was just a novelty for my amusement then it would probably be another matter but even then I really hate internal slave cylinders. I'd rather spend the extra time required to service them out driving or doing something else even if I had a full lift in my garage.

Have you considered using the clutch cable to activate the master cylinder for the clutch? You could mount the cylinder on the fender and the reservoir where its easy to get to without having to deal with a brake compromise.

My car is going to be completely impractical if not insane when I get done with it, working on it is half the fun to me. I had not considered a cable pull hydraulic master, I’ve never seen a setup like that before, and while I can see a lot of benefits to it, I can also see a lot of downsides as well. I am going to have to swap out brake masters anyway, my motor setup requires it, so I think I’m going to do manual brakes, and a traditional clutch master cylinder. I also have to swap to rack and pinion, so I might as well go all out anyway.

[DieselSpider]

My car is going to be completely impractical if not insane when I get done with it, working on it is half the fun to me. I had not considered a cable pull hydraulic master, I’ve never seen a setup like that before, and while I can see a lot of benefits to it, I can also see a lot of downsides as well. I am going to have to swap out brake masters anyway, my motor setup requires it, so I think I’m going to do manual brakes, and a traditional clutch master cylinder. I also have to swap to rack and pinion, so I might as well go all out anyway.

I confess that I am the polar opposite. If its for the street than no real need for insane since the highest speed limit in the USA is on a section of Interstate in a desolate area of Texas where the speed limit is 85 MPH.

Tell me you found a way to get well over 100 MPG using a 2Stroke Diesel that is clean burn and you've got me 100% on board. A little fun with fewer stops for fuel extending my drive time down twisty roads in scenic locations is more my speed. Right now with the OHC Turbo Diesel in my Spider I am getting over 500 miles on a tank of diesel fuel and it still drives/handles like a traditional 124 Spider plus actually has more space under the hood despite the turbo.

Thankfully there are plenty of options out there for both of us to enjoy.

[AndyVAS]

Alter the clutch pedal and pedal box. Mount the master cylinder under the dash like the X1/9. Very common way of doing it in cable to hydraulic conversion just not common on these cars so you will have to make it all yourself.