Webers 70's don't fit on the waffle manifold

[Carlito]

Hi guys,
I'm no carburetor expert at all but if a "specialist" tells me that these carbs are for my car and they will 100% fit, you tend to believe him, right?
I've just received these Webers 40 IDF (70 series) and they simply don't fit on the waffle manifold.
Again, I'm no expert.. but shouldn't this be a PAIR.. instead of two IDENTICAL carbs???
Even the part number on the box is exactly the same
How would this set up be ever able to work in sync???
Or.. am I missing something??

Thanks in advance for any input from some more knowledgeable of you!

carlito

[Daniel]

Hi carlito

Hope i can help here with a little insight since I've setup a number of Dual Carbs for these engines .
Here I have Dual Throttle boddies with the same bolt pattern as Weber DCOE Carbs that i am working on,
A Honda Intake Manifold and a Fiat Twin Cam Engine Manifold the bolt pattern for both engines aftermarket
Manifold accept DCOE Carbs ( or DCOE Throttle Boddies ) .



Weber Carbs ( IDFs & DCOEs ) are never sent from the factor to match up on the throttle shafts side by side right
out of the box . I've always had to cut at least one side down a tad and clean up the threads after doing so .
Here is a Photo of what you need parts wise to make the 2 Carbs work as one it's called a interconnecting linkage




You'll need this part to move forward with your dual carb build after getting your hands on that kit cut some of
the shaft off . You want to mark with a sharpie what is needed to be removed . To measure just set the carbs on
intake manifold and mark the end of the shaft carb on the right side needs to be modified you'll be taking the
Nut and Spring off . Once this is all done you can mate up your dual carbs but you want to purchace a Throttle
Cable as well it's pretty much a motor cycle type of Cable . The Throttle cable will need a mounting plate to
hold it in place all of these parts can be purchased at Pierce Manifolds



The interconnecting Linkage allows you to sink the carbs with an adjustment screw the return spring that you lose
on the one carb will not be missed since you'll have another on the other IDF plus the throttle linkage will have a
spring .

Hope this helps .

Daniel

[kmead]

So the first question is are you keeping them? One could modify the mounting bolt holes to fit.

To answer the question, I would first want to know if the actual openings of the waffle manifold match to the carbs openings. Not the mounting holes but the holes air and fuel will go through.

If the holes in the manifold and the carbs line up then all other issues can be dealt with.

You are correct that the OEM carbs were in effect mirror images of each other with the throttle actuation happening between the carbs. Set up the way these are requires a different approach to opening the throttles. There are many parts and pieces available to do this properly, not cheap but available.

It would have been nice if they were a direct install with no mods.

[Daniel]

Karl
The only issue he is having is the throttle shafts are in each others way nothing else the carbs are fine
once he gets the 2 IDFs connected in the middle he will be ready to go ! about the cost it shouldnt be
that much .

[Carlito]

Hi again, guys!
Thank you so much for your immediate response!!!
Especially to you, Danny!! You've really spent some time putting this reply together!!! Awesome!!
I truly appreciate it!!
OK, back to my problem.. I've managed to dig up some old picture of the Weber setup (see below) I had on my previous Spider..
And yes, you, Danny, are absolutely right.. to sync these carbs the center pieces are essential.
I didn't install this, the PO did...
So, naturally, I expected a similar setup when I buy a new set!
I had no idea that on top of spending hundreds of $ for the carbs, now I would have to hack the main shaft off, fiddle around with it AND buy some additional parts to make it functional!!

To Karl:
Thank you for your input as well ! As far as I know, waffle manifold is widely used and very popular. Bolt pattern matches perfectly.. even the intake openings.. All that is fine. IMHO I don't think that trying to mod carb bolt holes would be the right way to go.. I might be wrong though..

Thank you again for your input, guys!!
I really love this forum!! Everybody is really trying to help any way they possibly can! Very unique!!

carlito

here is the old Weber setup

[So Cal Mark]

the newer series of Webers (70) won't fit the waffle intake without modding the throttle shafts. The original Webers (13/15) will fit. We build our new intakes to fit the 70 series carbs

[Carlito]

Hi Mark
Thank for your input as well! The more info I'm getting the more I realize that's probably the only way.. hmmm!?
I think NOW I remember seeing your comment in some post about the 70s not fitting w/o some mods.. (sclerosis? )
I know you'd like me to say that I want your manifold, right!?? It took me a while to find the waffle type.. so I guess I'm not gonna just throw it away...
Since you are far more knowledgeable that I'm, could you, please, suggest what additional parts I need to buy? I just checked Pierce's pages and the only parts I see that would do the trick are these:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/PhotoGal ... ode=PM3717



Would this be all?

Thanks again!

carlito

[Carlito]

Maybe one more comment..
Has anyone done this modification? I mean like a step by step procedure..
I'm sure I'm not the only one experiencing this issue and posting that here would help others as well.
Thank you all.

carlito

[Daniel]

Your welcome carlito

Call Pierce they will explain what you need ! as for Marks manifold or yours they both need the same parts to work .

[So Cal Mark]

I'm not suggesting you buy my manifold, merely stating what I learned about the two series of carbs and one reason we started building new intakes. Most people freak out when you tell them to grind off the end of the throttle shafts

[Carlito]

Thanks again, Mark!

As I stated before, I'm no carb expert... my questions are very simple.

a) are those parts I posted ALL I need to make the modification?
b) is there a step-by-step procedure somewhere on the forum (or elsewhere) how to do this?
i.e. ... first you need to get these parts.. then unbolt this.., then grind off this much, replace this w that.. etc.

It may sound stupid to you, guys who have done it many times over... but all I need is a straight answer.. that's all

Danny says... I've setup a number of Dual Carbs for these engines... then his advice is to call Pierce.


Thank you all!

carlito

[kmead]

To Karl:
Thank you for your input as well ! As far as I know, waffle manifold is widely used and very popular. Bolt pattern matches perfectly.. even the intake openings.. All that is fine. IMHO I don't think that trying to mod carb bolt holes would be the right way to go.. I might be wrong though..

carlito

Doh! that will teach met to look at tiny little pics on my phone during the early morning blurry eyed nut scratcher time of the day...

I wasn't seeing the real problem, the interference at the throttle shafts, just the failure to seat on the manifold. My apologies.

Thanks for not saying the obvious: Karl you idiot, what the heck are you talking about now??

Sorry guys.

[Daniel]

Danny says... I've setup a number of Dual Carbs for these engines... then his advice is to call Pierce.

tell you what fly me out there and ill have the problem solved in about 50 mins i said to call them for
the parts i dont make those .

[thechadzone]

I'm finally going to be doing this operation on my IDF-70s. I'd previously built a monster of a linkage system that incorporated the outboard linkage used for VW application, but it's finally failing, so I've bought the center linkage pieces that are pictured above. I've also got rebuild kits, and some random linkage bits that'll hopefully get the job done.

It seems to me that if I fit the center linkage to the carbs before I put them on the manifold, I can then mark the excess shaft threads with paint before removing the center linkage and grinding off the threads that I had marked with paint. Is there a better way? I plan to use a Dremel cut-off tool to do this.

At risk of hijacking this thread, some IDF linkage shots would be cool to see, as they vary so much. My original linkage was f-ing BRILLIANT, but so was Dr. Frankenstein's creation...

[Daniel]

I would keep a nut on the shaft as you remove run it back and forth a few times before completely taking
the nut off to help clean up the threads . Cutting the shaft with a dremel or any other cutting tool should
be fine it's all about what your comfortable using in this process .