How Things Have Changed!

[DUCeditor]

I've been a Spider owner since 1988. Been a member of this forum for quite a while too. But a couple of years back health issues prevented me from putting my Spider back on the road (It is a seasonal "fun" car) and my involvement for a time ebbed.

Recently (just in time for some traditional New England Autumn back roading!) I decided it was time to get my Spider back on the road, and of course renewed my participation here. The car is as wonderful as ever. I love it! And the forum as helpful, interesting and fun as I remember it. But other things in the Spider world sure have changed.

One thing I loved about the Fiat was that it had all the flair of a high end Italian roadster, but unlike most of those its parts were so easily available and the prices low. That seems to be far less so now. IAP -- my parts dealer of choice for years and years is gone. And parts once easy to find are either now hard to get, very expensive or only readily available in low-quality versions.

Actually, thinking about it, this had been happening for a while. The last sets of points and condenser I'd purchased had been junk. But now? Much, much worse!

The short saga of my needing a replacement ignition switch is elsewhere on the forum. Two switches in I have one that works fine. But my trusted mechanic carefully packaged the old one and suggested I keep it "just in case." New originals, he said, are still sometimes available. For $600! Eeek! Most available now are junk.

Three summers ago, just before taking my car off the road, I put on a new top (the first such replacement since I got the car), replaced the gas tank, and a few other things. Total brake and front suspension rebuild, etc. Glad I did! How long will these parts be easily available? And what will the quality of the needed parts be?

Mind you these concerns/complaints are common among owners of all classic cars. The difference, from what I am seeing and hearing, is that other classic cars which have long sold for much higher prices than our Spiders, have encouraged for that very reason a strong secondary market for quality after-market parts. (AVA, my service provider, currently has two XKEs on the floor getting total rebuilds. Quality parts for these, I have been told, are now easier to find than for my Fiat.)

Maybe this will change, and quality Spider parts will again be marketed. But for that to happen the Fiat 124 will have to be seen as something rare and special -- something worth investing big dollars into. Is that happening? Will it?

Yes, things have changed. I still love my Spider, but keeping her running is apparently going to be a far bigger challenge than it used to be.

-Don

[azruss]

I drove 70 spider as a daily driver from 1970 to 1993. I returned to the driving 124 world 3 years ago. Back in the pre-internet days, i could buy parts from a local guy at very expensive prices and finally discovered some mail order houses like Vicks and IAP in the 90s. Now we have Auto Ricambi, Mark Allison and others that provide a very large complement of replacement parts at great prices, and probably competitive with IAP 90s prices if you add in inflation adjustments. I agree that the modern part lacks the OEM quality, but I suspect you would find the same issue if you were looking for an ignition switch for a 64 mustang. I am pleased to see so many of us willing to restore these sweet cars even though they may never be worth the investment. It allows these parts suppliers to remain in business and grow. These are companies that own these cars personally and strive to get higher and higher quality parts. To me, this adds up to changes for the better.

[bradartigue]

Interesting to read this, because I don't think it has ever been easier to keep them running. The availability of information is outstanding. The bad vendors (IAP was not one of these in my opinion) are mostly gone. Parts are available - you may not like the price, but they're still cheaper than the late 80's early 90's prices from FIAT or Linearossa ($400 speedometer in 1992 - Ricambi Originali) Quality...well, you have to shop around, but aftermarket quality is considerably better than the junk being sold in the early 2000s, the A-Arms that would collapse, the electric parts that would ignite. The OEM stuff is mostly gone, unfortunately.

Your trusted mechanic is making a hell of a profit if he is selling ignition switches for $600.00. Remind him you own a FIAT, not a Ferrari, and even though you can still buy the same switch new in a Ferrari box, you'd prefer to pay the FIAT price.

[DUCeditor]

Your trusted mechanic is making a hell of a profit if he is selling ignition switches for $600.00. Remind him you own a FIAT, not a Ferrari, and even though you can still buy the same switch new in a Ferrari box, you'd prefer to pay the FIAT price.

No. Sorry if what I wrote was unclear. What he told me is that the supplier through whom he got the Lada switch told him that occasionally he can find an original switch. And that he does he (the distributor) sell them for that price.

I'll need to further familiarize myself with current sources. I was kind'a spoiled by my dealing with IAP. Their catalog and website was always clear. Quality was always as described. So far in my searches I have seen nothing comparable but I will continue looking.

The old time dealer (name not to be mentioned) that provided my tech with the first replacement switch which lasted moments made returning it difficult - even though he apparently admitted that approximately half of those he sells prove defective. That is SO different from my past dealings with IAP.

-don

[zachmac]

Personally I prefer Auto Ricambi or even Vicks to IAP. Mostly due to price IAP was always my last choice (but provided decent stuff when I used them). I also think Midwest Bayless is an often overlooked and reliable source.

BTW, the parts for older British cars are mostly crap from the same sources as a lot of the other crap. Bottom line is the OEM / NOS supplies are being exhausted for almost ALL older cars and unless there is a profit incentive because it is a Jag of Ferrari you are going to end up with made in China stuff.

Lastly, I think way to many people don't take the time to try repairing or refurbishing the part they have. Ignition switches for example are pretty simple to take apart and trouble shoot and repair.

[So Cal Mark]

I agree with Brad, it's far easier now than it was 10-15 years ago to keep these cars running. There are many upgrades over oem that are available now and the most important factor; most owners are willing to spend money on the cars and make them really nice and reliable

[DieselSpider]

I am finding it refreshing that parts are so readily available locally from the major parts houses that one normally would do business with. Starters, alternators, brake pads, rotors, calipers, master cylinders, bearings, seals and the list goes on with many guarantied for as long as you own the car. So far it has not been bad at all with most things I have needed available immediately at the counter or from a local warehouse in a few hours or by the next day.

Mine has the added complication of having a very limited production Isuzu Diesel Engine/Transmission combo that was only available for a few short years in the early 1980's and even that has not been a terribly big issue.

[DUCeditor]

Well, I'm encouraged by what I am reading here. I guess I need to come up to today and not simply feel bad that my old and easy habits will no longer suffice.

In fairness I have t say, too, that I am not myself a mechanic. Oh yeah, I did things like recovering my seats with a kit and making a two-piece dash, but I have neither the skills, tools or place to work for serious mechanical work. I've thus depended upon knowledgeable pros and have been very fortunate to have found such.

When I lived in Boston I had a mechanic who learned his trade in Rome. He knew Fiats like better mechanics here (used to) know Chevys.

Upon my moving to the Monadnocks some 15 years ago I was without such support for a time. Then a local shop known for their real, old-fashioned, shop abilities who specialized in old American vehicles, told me about AVA - a shop that I'd driven passed many times and each time admired the costly classic machines in their parking area. "Too expensive!" was my inaccurate conclusion. And when I finally stopped by following that recommendation I was thrilled with all I heard, saw and later experienced. "Fiats don't scare me" said AVA's owner Alex Vogel. And then he did some major work on my then sadly neglected car. To my surprise the bill didn't scare me!

AVA is famous in classic BMW circles, but more and more owners of other classic European vehicles are taking them there. So much so that on AVA's Facebook page there is the occasional photo of a large shop full of Italian and Brit vehicles with a humorous aside "Oh, we also work on BMWs." Some of these come from as far away as the west coast.

For those here on Facebook, here's AVA's page... https://www.facebook.com/AVA-Restoratio ... /timeline/

Fiats are low brow there, but I am never made to feel that my car is less appreciated. In fact when, a couple of years back, the advert company doing the catalog for that year's Jos. A. Banks Clothier catalog asked Alex to suggest a car for their annual shoot he put them in touch with me. And yes, it was a Fiat Spider that graced their catalog that year.





So, each according to their needs! I'm glad to know that there are some decent part sources!

Grazie!

-Don

[Ramzi]

Since part of the frustration you spoke of was about ignition switches and since we are the vendor who supplied AVA with an ignition switch a few weeks ago, I felt it important to mention a few things.

AVA was indeed correct, over the past 12 months, we have sold 3 NOS OEM Sipea ignition switches for approximately $500 each. Please keep in mind, that we had to buy a lot of Strada parts to get these switches... so it is not really as profitable as one might think. And, to be completely honest, we never in a million years thought anyone would buy them. But it appears the market is there for high quality parts.

Then I started to think about the comment "approximately half of those he sells prove defective" That seemed incredible, so I decided to look at our sales history. And in the past 3 years we have sold approximately 300 OE Lada ignition switches - of which approximate 30% went to other Fiat vendors. And of the total sales, I can only find 4 defective units returned. I can not imagine having a 50% defective rate on any item.

I / we think that this is actually a very exciting time to own a 124 Spider. Just have a look around, you will see more items available and at much more reasonable prices that 20 years ago. I personally think that one needs to vet the supply chain before passing judgment.

Just my 2 cents

[DUCeditor]

Again Ramzi, there is a miscommunication here.

I was not referring to the Lada switch which you say you provided, but to a cheapo switch AVA had purchased elsewhere before the Lada that was installed and failed quickly. It was that one, bought elsewhere, that was, I had been told, said to have a 50% failure rating.

The Lada is what Alex at AVA said, after that sad experience, we would have to look for. He ordered it (apparently) from you, installed it quickly, and it is working flawlessly. (Thank you!)

-don

[DUCeditor]

As a follow up to my own comments here, I have been following the numerous suggestions here and seeking out vendors -- some apparently around for quite a long time -- that can again provide the satisfaction that I found over the years dealing with now (sadly) defunct IAP.

A few comments above was one by member who I learned is himself such a supplier -- Ramzi -- and his firm, AutoRicambi.

Looking at his site (as well as Vicks) I see that there are, indeed, some good part sources. My thanks to each of you, and to FiatSpider dot com, for being here to enlighten me.

I particularly enjoyed this article on the AutoRicambi website. It got right to the heart of the matter I'd raised when starting this thread.

http://blog.autoricambi.us/why-high-qua ... d-to-find/

-Don

[Ramzi]

No worries - and I certainly hope you don't think I took any offense. I think the point I was trying to make is that all Ignition switches just like all parts suppliers are not created equally.

Some current Fiat parts suppliers and retailers sell ill fitting Chinese made items at a lower price.... and apparently can get away with that... But in the long run that just hurts all enthusiasts including us. Bad parts break which makes the cars we all love less fun to drive. And no one wants that.

I really think this is a great time to own a Spider - From our baffled fuel tanks to Mark Allison's custom items, there are so many things available now that were never on the market before.

Take heart my friend, things have changed but for the better.... at least we think so.

[KevAndAndi]

We are indeed lucky to have Auto Ricambi, Allison's, Vick, Midwest-Bayless, etc. They each have their strengths, and I have patronized them all.

Don, it sounds like you have a keeper with that auto service shop. I myself am looking for a good shop, as the time will come when my Spider requires attention that is beyond my meager (albeit developing) skills.

The manager of one classic car shop told me, after I explained that the car in question was a 1981 Fiat, "Oh, my mechanics won't work on that. We don't usually service cars unless they are 1970s vintage or older." Well, alrighty, then!

I have a couple of control arms on order, and it's certainly nice to have the peace of mind to know that they won't collapse.

[DieselSpider]

We are indeed lucky to have Auto Ricambi, Allison's, Vick, Midwest-Bayless, etc. They each have their strengths, and I have patronized them all.

Don, it sounds like you have a keeper with that auto service shop. I myself am looking for a good shop, as the time will come when my Spider requires attention that is beyond my meager (albeit developing) skills.

The manager of one classic car shop told me, after I explained that the car in question was a 1981 Fiat, "Oh, my mechanics won't work on that. We don't usually service cars unless they are 1970s vintage or older." Well, alrighty, then!

I have a couple of control arms on order, and it's certainly nice to have the peace of mind to know that they won't collapse.

You could counter that an 1981 Fiat is still basically a 60'/70's car that was still being manufactured in 1981 but...

[DUCeditor]

You could counter that an 1981 Fiat is still basically a 60'/70's car that was still being manufactured in 1981 but...

That same thought crossed my mind. "But"... Yeah "but." Who wants to force a mechanic to work on your car against their will?

Among the things that have made the mechanics and shops I have come to depend on so excellent -- along with their basic skills and integrity -- is a real love of the cars. Of Fiats in the case of my Boston mechanic. He loved getting a chance to work on them; something he dearly missed from his years in Italy. And all interesting and unusual cars for my present 'go to' folks at AVA.

You can tell the difference between a person who works out of love and passion, vs those -- even competent people -- for whom it is "just a job."

AVA is such a place. I have sometimes just stopped in there to look at the work going on. One never knows what one will see. An Austin Healey stripped down to the frame. An old Alfa with its gorgeous engine castings awaiting hand polishing on the work bench. Always enthusiasm. Always a welcoming smile. Oh, and lots of bikes too! Ducatis. Classic BMWs. Old Japanese two-strokes. Whatever grabs Alex's attention and interest.

Is it any wonder I, and so many others, trust our beloved machines to such a person and shop?



-don