Mouse in my clutch?

[Pr124spider]

1975 124 spider clutch makes a squeak/moan (short and soft) at beginning of engagement. Anyone experience this and find a remedy? (Besides leaving cheese in the glove box?)

[Bagneaux]

Sometimes that's a sign of a crack in the firewall where the clutch cable goes through the firewall into the engine compartment.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Another noise that occurs when operating the clutch is due to the clutch cable not riding smoothly in the fork on the opposite end of the clutch pedal. Not the fork that goes into the bellhousing, but the "slotted tang" above the pedal assembly inside the car. Sometimes it creaks, and sometimes it clicks, but the solution is lubrication. Sometimes the fix involves straightening out and smoothing that "tang".

If you are certain that the noise is coming from inside the bellhousing, then it could be a sign that the throwout bearing is going bad.

-Bryan

[Spider951]

It would help to know the point of origin of the noise, i.e., is it from the clutch pedal area, or clutch cable (pedal/firewall), or connection of clutch cable to lever on side of transmission, or from the clutch itself (connection to flywheel)? You might need a helper and a mechanic's stethoscope to locate the noise.

[Pr124spider]

Thank you all! Will pass your good suggestions forward to my tech. Grateful for your feedback.

[Spider951]

To elaborate a bit on what 18+Fiats (aka Bryan) said about the clutch pedal "tang" possibly needing some "persuasion" to behave properly, be aware that the thing can become bent with 40+ years of use, thereby resulting in several issues, all of them bad, with noise being the least of the worries. Photo 1 below shows a bent pedal "tang" area - the yellow line is what the alignment should be. Some "persuasion" or a new pedal needed there.

Photo 2 shows two pedals, the one on the right is bent, the one on the left is OK and even has some reinforcement welded in to prevent that from happening again. [If you determine that the pedal needs to be removed, I hereby volunteer Bryan to assist with the "helper" spring when restoring the pedal to its proper working order When I did that repair on my car, I had to resort to other means to deal with that bad-boy spring, the Olympic weightlifter champ being unavailable that day.]

[Pr124spider]

That’s great advice thank you. Will pass along to my tech who will likely tell me he read it and say he already knew that.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

...I hereby volunteer Bryan to assist with the "helper" spring when restoring the pedal to its proper working order

Ha! I see what you did there, Spider951! Yes, removing and reinstalling that helper spring is not the easiest of tasks, but there are some tricks if you get to that point. None of which involve me driving to San Diego.

-Bryan

[Pr124spider]

Very much appreciate it guys! Thank you.

[Mheinle]

I am also having a similar mouse in my clutch pedal. Definitely in the pedal, no cracks in the firewall so I am suspecting the tang. I would love to hear about tips on the help spring as I would love to silence the mouse and remove the pedal box to weld the steering column back onto its bracket. But I have heard legends about the fourth layer of hell the helper spring will take you to.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I can think of three methods to make the helper spring job easier. All involve removing the driver's seat, putting a blanket down there to protect your back, and getting your head and arms up into the footwell. Have a kid or spouse assist with getting tools so you don't have to keep getting up and down. Going from easiest to hardest:

1) Move the clutch pedal to the position where the spring is extended the most, and shove little metal or wooden wedges in between the coils of the spring. Pennies or nickels also work, and a screwdriver can help with separating the coils. If you get enough wedge effect over 15 coils or so, the overall spring should extend enough so that you can remove it off the hook at the end. Use caution so that it doesn't all pop loose at once, as that could cause some personal damage.

2) Just under the point where the forward end of the spring meets the S-hook, and slightly towards the front of the car, drill a 3/16" or so hole in the underside of the pedal box so that you can stick a Phillips screwdrivers through the end of the spring and into the drilled hole as leverage to pull the spring forward enough so that you can unhook it. The exact location of that drilled hole makes a difference, so think this through.

3) Work out at a gym for a year until you are totally buff, then you should be able to remove the spring by grabbing the end with vise-grips and pulling.

-Bryan

[Spider951]

Below are some photos of how I got the clutch helper spring detached. Basically I used a cable puller - the pull has to be along the axis of the spring or there can be problems - I had to devise a bracket to attach to the end of the helper spring. [I had a nice writeup but I timed out, so this is a much briefer version]. The spring needed to be stretched about 5 1/4 inches for the return trip to the car.] I will post the photos and then might have to add explanation later.

[Spider951]

Just a bit of additional explantion: I tried the old pennies in the coils trick, but the pennies kept falling out before I could reach enough stretch. I also could not get the seat out (that would probably work in that maybe I could use my legs instead of my wimpy arms to pull on the little devil). So, after much frustration, damage to fingers, and reaching a Clark Griswold "on the threshold of Hell" level I opted for the "get a bigger hammer" approach - the cable puller. (I like Bryan's idea of pulling the spring from the front but my crusty, old and damaged brain did not think of that).
I wouldn't call it the full "4 levels of hell" job, but maybe about a 2.5 level.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Agree on the 2.5 rating level for this job. I like that idea of a cable puller and I'll have to think about it some more. In the past, I used to grab the end of the spring (with vise grips) at the location shown by the yellow arrow in your first picture, and pull. I believe the spring is least tensioned when the pedal is down all the way, so I put a block of wood or the like to hold the pedal to the floor and then pulled on the vise-grips.

I haven't done this for a few years, so it's possible that I'm no longer "buff enough".

-Bryan