Radiator Flush - Now what did I do wrong?

[fiasco]

Ok - I followed the directions on the kit, but the result I got was not what I expected, so I'm hoping I can get some advice on what I did wrong.

First pic is where I put the flushing T.

Then I turned on the hose with the radiator cap off and the radiator drain plug out.


The next three pics are where the water came out. I thought the water would be coming out the top of the radiator where I took the cap off.





Then I started the car, like it said to do on the instructions on the flush kit. Water seemed to come out from every nook and cranny under the hood, except the top of the radiator. A lot of water came out the tail pipe.

So - what did I do wrong?

Thanks,
-- se

[TulsaSpider]

Oh my! It sounds like you failed to provide a place for the water to go! It didn't come out the radiator likely because of the in head thermostat, it's closed when the car is cold. The radiator circuit is separated from the engine circuit when the thermostat is closed they are two separate systems!!
If you did not leave a hose open or the block drain open the water pressure will be excessively great and will find somewhere to come out!! The pressure of a water hose is many times greater than that of the normal system. The water has to come out somewhere!! Your statement about the tail pipe is very troubling indeed that could cause catastrophic damage! Are you sure that water was coming out of the tailpipe? How does it run now? You need to check for water in the oil now!

[fiasco]

Great. So much for an easy, straightforward job. This is what's frustrating about not really knowing what you're doing. This should have been a simple, 30 minute job.

I put all the drain plugs back in and filled the radiator with a 50/50 solution of coolant and water and started it up. It seemed to start and run fine in the driveway, but still had water shooting out the tailpipe.

Turned it off and opened up the radiator cap again - the fluid in the radiator still looks like crap, so I drained it again, ran water in through the top of the radiator and let it run down and out the drain, just to try to get a little more of the bad stuff out of the system before filling it with the 50/50 again.

So, how do I check for water in the oil, and what other damage do I need to be on the lookout for?

Thanks,
-- se

[manoa matt]

Steve,

I hope you are sitting down... you installed the "t" fitting into the air injection hose that goes from the air pump to the air check valve on the head. The heater hose you wanted to install the "t" fitting into is just below the fitting in the first picture. It runs from the middle of the head at the back, up over the cam box and then into the firewall. I'm not sure if, or what kind of damage you may have done. You should remove the air pump and the hoses to let them dry out. The air pump system should be OK after it dries out.

The real question is: How much water did you introduce into the cylinders? Remove the spark plugs, take the car out of gear and turn the engine over by hand. Get the 1 and 4 pistons to top dead center with the timing marks lined up. Peer down into the cylinder through the spark plug hole. You may be able to blow the water out with compressed air, then rotate the crankshaft so 2 and 3 are at TDC and do the same thing.

The air pump check valve may have helped to keep most of the water out of the head and cylinders, but you'll need to verify before proceeding or starting the engine again. If you have water in the oil, the oil will appear a milky white color. How long was the car on, and what did it sound like?

[TulsaSpider]

Check the oil level to see if it has increased. Signs of water in the oil are milky frothy substance on dipstick and/or oil filler cap.
I am going to let some of the more experienced members chime in for you. As long as there is water coming out of the tailpipe do not run the engine!

[TulsaSpider]

Holy moly Matt You are right he plumbed it into the EGR!

[fiasco]

CRAP!

I asked a bunch of times what hose to put that fitting on. I even asked Ryan (SpiderHead) if that was the right hose when he was helping me with the carb. Looking at it now, I'm sure I got correct answers from everyone I asked, and just screwed it up when I actually did the job.

Will it make any difference that the air pump is not hooked up? Mark removed the belt after it passed smog. When I started the car, it only ran for less than a minute. It sounded fine, but like I said, there was definitely water coming out the tail pipe.

At this point, I hesitate to try to fix anything, given my track record so far. I guess I could get the spark plugs out, but I have no idea how to turn the engine over by hand - at one point, Mark said something about a 1.5" socket, which I don't have, but even if I did, I wouldn't know what to put it on.

I looked at the oil, and it looks normal, as best I can tell. Nothing milky or white.

-- se

[fiasco]

I'm gonna need a air injection hose since I cut mine open to put that stupid T in the wrong place. Do I have to go through a Fiat vendor, or can I get one of those at an auto parts store?

-- se

[TulsaSpider]

Right now it probably hasn't mixed enough to do that, but how is the oil level?? Has it increased?? If not then you probably didn't get too much water into the cylinders at least. Do as Matt suggested and remove your spark plugs, remember to mark your plug wires which one goes where, 1,2,3,4. Get a socket on the alternator and turn it while pushing down on the belt, this will turn the engine, it's a slow way but it will work. If you have a small flashlight you can peer into the cylinders and see if there is any water in there.
Don't worry there is plenty of help here!

[TulsaSpider]

I'm gonna need a air injection hose since I cut mine open to put that stupid T in the wrong place. Do I have to go through a Fiat vendor, or can I get one of those at an auto parts store?

-- se

Since it's not currently functional it can wait Steve won't affect anything.

[fiasco]

Forgive the stupid question, but I guess if I had asked more stupid questions I wouldn't be in this situation.

Does it matter which one is 1, 2, 3 or 4?

-- se

[TulsaSpider]

Ask ask ask Steve! Yes it does very much matter which wire goes where. They provide spark when the piston is at TDC, if they get mixed up then the spark ignites the fuel in the wrong place, and it won't run. You can always reference your photos if you already pulled the wires!

[fiasco]

Yeah - I did know that much. I was asking whether it matters if I do anything in any particular order - i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd... I figure it doesn't but...

At this point though, I'm SOL 'cause I don't have a socket that will even come close to getting out the spark plugs, and being that it's 6:00 on a Sunday, I don't expect to be able to get one before tomorrow. Can someone tell me what size socket I need?

Also - just to be sure - the alternator is down low on the pass. side, correct? 19mm nut on the front. I tried turning it while pushing on the belt, and it appeared to be turning the engine, but I couldn't tell for sure because I don't have the plugs out.

Thanks,
-- se

[TulsaSpider]

No that order doesn't matter. Go to the parts store and get a spark plug socket, there are two sizes, one is much bigger around than the other, if in doubt ask them.
How was the oil level? Had it increased?

[manoa matt]

Steve,

1. Wipe the water off the distributor cap.
2. Trace each plug wire from the plug to the cap, with a permanent marker write the number on the cap where it hooks up to.
3. remove the air cleaner housing, and anything else thats in the way of removing the plugs.
4. remove all plugs, place car in neutral, and with a wrench on the alternator nut turn the engine over, Facing the car the engine turns clockwise.
5. line up the mark on the main crankshaft pulley with the mark on the yellow timing cover as seen from the driver's side looking down. There are also two pointers at each cam pulley on the back side at the top rear of the yellow cover. The cam pulley has a hole in it that should line up with the pointer. (The crankshaft turns twice for every one revolution of the cam pulleys so the mark on the crank pulley might be lined up with the one on the yellow cover, but the cam pulleys may not. Turn it over once more).
6. look down into the cylinder in the plug hole at cylinders 1 and 4. Any water? If so, put the plugs back in 2 and 3 so any water does not go into them, and blow out the water from cylinders 1 and 4.
7.Try to neck down a vacuum hose with misc hoses and tubes and some duct tape and try to suck the remaining water out.
8. Turn the engine over again so pistons 2 and 3 are at the top, do procedures 6 and 7 for those cylinders.

A simple fix for the air pump hose is to get a hose that will fit over the air pump hose and insert both ends and use the clamps to create a splice, or you could use a length of pipe on the inside of the hose ends to splice it.

Since emissions are only once a year you can leave it unhooked until needed. I also have a 76 that I'm parting out and the air pump hose is good if you need it.

The spark plug socket is 13/16" for stock Champion plugs, possibly 3/4" for other thinner plugs. I got a 3 piece plug socket set at Wal-mart, open (24/7) It will be alot easier to turn the engine with the plugs out.

Matt