Abarth renewed?

[maytag]

Hey all!

After messing-around with some carbon-fiber layup for my hood, I think I've decided I love it.

So I'm getting ready to begin a better mold, that will produce a better product for me. I'm curious what interest level there might be from others on the forum? If there's enough interest, I'll build the mold a little differently so it'll stand-up to regular use, rather than just one or two.

Not looking for commitment here, just interest level.

The design I'm going to work-up right now is this hood (below), but without the light pods (which could be added later). Can be done in C/F or fiberglass that can be painted.

[Newell33]

I'd be interested. That hood looks great (without the lights of course).

Josh

[stefhahn]

What is the price tag? Just curious....

[swede]

The design I'm going to work-up right now is this hood (below), but without the light pods (which could be added later). Can be done in C/F or fiberglass that can be painted.

maytag,

You don’t have to make one up it already exist and the light pods are add-ons, you can buy it at.
http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/parts.php
They might have other parts that you like too....

[maytag]

You don’t have to make one up it already exist and the light pods are add-ons, you can buy it at.
http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/parts.php
They might have other parts that you like too....

Sunnuva!!!!

I didn't know about GMR. Now I do.
But looking through his site, I don't see that hood, except in his "examples of packaging" photos. It may be a custom offering? I also don't see anything in Carbon Fiber. Everything is either plastic (Polyester) or fiberglass.
I've joined his forum so I can ask some questions.

That having been said: his hood with the louver cutouts is 450e, roughly $650 USD, plus shipping from Antwerp. That makes the price-point outrageous, for us over here on this side of the pond.

Once I'm tooled-up, I see no reason why I can't sell a carbon-fiber unit for at or near that same price, with domestic shipping. Fiberglass would be significantly less, of course.

But thanks for the heads-up!

[cos]

i agree GMR is a bit on the expensive side, so have you thought what your price would be? I'm interested!

[maytag]

i agree GMR is a bit on the expensive side, so have you thought what your price would be? I'm interested!

Not yet. Some of that would of course depend on how many units I produce. But I think the C/F would probably be under $700, and the fiberglass under $500. That would include the louvered-vents on the back corners of the hood, which (at this stage) would be installed post-production.

[manoa matt]

Have you seen this site?: http://www.fiatabarthclassicracing.com.au/parts2.htm No price listed. I contacted them regarding a hood, cam covers, and big wing sump, no response yet.

Fiberglass hood: http://www.showcars-bodyparts.com/fiat.html

Homemade carbon fiber hood: http://www.turbo124.com/69.htm

I've also been kicking around making one of those hoods, several actually. My neighbor makes surfboards and is good with fiberglass and carbon fiber. The materials are cheap and plentiful here where surfing and boat building are commonplace. I believe there was a thread here a while ago about it. I already have the rubber abarth latches.

The problem with carbon fiber is that is must be perfect or it looks odd, to do it right you need a vacuum bag. If you never worked with that technique before you might not get the first few hoods right. The best thing about fiberglass is that it can be painted flat black and still look good.

The louvers look cool, but must be properly ducted or they will perform in the opposite manner since the engine is a high pressure zone. You want hot air to flow out the louvers near the cowel panel which it will most likely do. You want air to flow into the two scoups, without ducting or connecting them to the intake the air will get forced out of them. Look at how hoods on 60's and 70's muscle cars interface with the carb intake.

[maytag]

Matt:
You're right, and I'm all over the vacuum-bagging. A couple of my buds design and build airplanes, and they're all set. We've even got an autoclave at our disposal, but there would be no need on the hood to go to that level.

I think I'd lay-up with a foam layer, to stiffen it up a bit. And actually, the hood has so few contours to it that the weave should be fairly easily laid in any pattern I like, based on my first mock-up.

As to the scoops and louvers: I'll admit that I didn't follow some of what you're saying. If the idea of the louvers is to allow hot air to escape (which I assumed it was), then this will be aided by the engine compartment being a high-pressure area. So what did I miss? Or maybe what you meant to say was that the cowl area (outside the engine compartment) where the louvers are placed is a high-pressure zone, and you're suggesting that this would force air back into the engine compartment?
And as to the scoops: Ram-air is pretty common on motorcycles these days, just as it was on the 60's & 70's muscle-cars you've mentioned. We can tune for that. I don't understand the problem? Unless you're thinking that I was just going to duct the air into the under-hood, and let it free-range around? (I dunno... maybe one-side I would! )

Help me figure-out what the hell you're trying to say!

[manoa matt]

Here is a rough diagram of how the air would flow through and around the engine bay with out any ducting around the hood scoups: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/4258617626/

If you just run a single carb, stock air cleaner or don't mind the fuss, then everything should be ok. In this instance the scoup would be just for decoration/looks and would not function as a true hood scoup. "Unless you're thinking that I was just going to duct the air into the under-hood, and let it free-range around? " This is that instance. Just watch your rad temps to make sure it is getting enough air flow across the cores.

Lets say you want a "true" hood scoup where the air is ducted straight to the carbs/intake/filter box. You will need to fabricate some interface between the intake and the hood scoup similar to these:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/4258617620/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/4258617610/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigtimes_fiat/4258617606/

In essence when you lower the hood, any air that enters the scoup can only go to the carb and not free-range around the engine bay.

Just getting dual carbs to fit under the hood is hard enough, let alone trying to design an interface between the carbs and hood that dosent shake itself apart when the motor twists every time you stomp the pedal. But it has been done before, so it is possible to do. I don't think Fiat/Abarth considered the ducting on their hoods so it may not be an issue, but Guy Croft warns against such instances with hood scoups, so I guess I'm now "on the fence" until there is someway to prove the theory.

Back to the diagram, If the air pressure in the engine bay is higher than the air pressure going into the scoup then air will flow out of the scoup. The reverse is also true. However at certain speeds, the air pressure could be equal causing the air flow to stall in the scoup.

[maytag]

Okay.. now I'm with ya. And I agree with all of your suppositions.

Being able to shape my own hood "bumps" (taller) has the benefit of allowing me to fit whatever I want under 'em. And there are several other ways to create ducting to the carbs that don;t include a the scoop not being part of the hood. There's no reason the hood (or top of the scoop, if you will) can't act as the top of the airbox, for instance. Sealed against a flexible gasketing on the sides, which are attached to the motor. just as a for-instance.

I appreciate the foresight. I've gone into projects half-cocked before, only to discover I overlooked something obvious.

[manoa matt]

Yep exaclty, my only problem is I drive mine daily and it rains frequently sometimes without much notice. In my case I would need to also incorporate a flap that can close off the scoup or divert the flow so that I don't suck rain water into the engine. Either an electrical solenoid or a manual choke cable. Now see how complicated its getting.

[maytag]

Yep exaclty, my only problem is I drive mine daily and it rains frequently sometimes without much notice. In my case I would need to also incorporate a flap that can close off the scoup or divert the flow so that I don't suck rain water into the engine. Either an electrical solenoid or a manual choke cable. Now see how complicated its getting.

Don't know why you'd worry at all about rain water getting in. You're still filtering the air once it's through the scoop. And a little mist of water is not a bad thing. We've been known to use home-built water-injection setups on heavily-boosted motors. IMHO: You're not going to get anywhere near that much water through the air filter, no matter how saturated it becomes.

[mdrburchette]

This is an interesting thread. I'd like to see how you incorporate a scoop into the hood and air cleaner. In the case of dual IDFs, it would seem a pretty easy mod with the turtleback air cleaner, but then you run into the problem of inconsistent air flow from one carb to another.
On a side note, there was a Spider at the Pocono FFO that had a carbon fiber hood. It was pretty awesome but I have no idea if the guy was planning to make them for anyone else.

[maytag]

but then you run into the problem of inconsistent air flow from one carb to another.

hmm. hadn't thought of this yet. If I direct airflow past carb 'A' to get to carb 'B', then it will certainly be inconsistent. however, if I were to create a plenum of sorts, that 'distributed' the air, then it could be done. (Think about a primary chamber at scoop level,that fills from the scoop. It then 'bleeds' or overflows omni-directionally, into the airbox mounted below, .)
I'll need to think that through a bit more.

dangit! Why y'all gotta go and make this so difficult!