New Ticking Sound

[Nut124]

I'd take the advice and examine the dizzy cover. I have seen contact there and I could see it could come and go if the dizzy brgs were a bit worn or the cover a bit loose.

While idling, put you hand on the cover and try to rock it a bit, gently, from side to side, see if you can feel the rotor hit the posts. Or remove the cover, examine the inside for signs of contact, debris, marks.

[kilrwail]

You can use a long screwdriver to listen to the distributor, by holding the tip on the cap firmly and your ear on the handle.

[FiatRunner]

So it's gotten worse. Now it ticks at least 75% of the time, and before it would only do it occasionally.

I opened up the distributor, and it actually has a electronic conversion kit.


You can see that it says "21-Jan-2013" and on the other side it says "pertronix"

On the inside of the cap, it looks pretty clean, maybe a bit of dust around the contacts, but it doesn't look like it's hitting, at least not to me. The cap was very snug on the base.




I'm starting to get worried. I can't find anything that is rattling, arcing, shaking, and it really sounds like it's coming from the top of the cams. Could it be the cam gears? They aren't plastic, but I don't know what else it could be.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I listened several times again to the video you posted earlier. It doesn't sound oil-related or valve related as mentioned earlier. It sounds like something is hitting as it rotates, and that could either be the rotor hitting the inside of the distributor cap, or something along the timing belt path. Since you saw no evidence of anything amiss in the distributor, I'm kinda thinking the problem is somewhere else.

But the ticking seems pretty rapid at idle, too fast to be something with the camshafts. That leaves the crankshaft which spins 2X faster than the cams or distributor. Any chance your timing belt cover is loose or mis-positioned, and something is hitting it?

If it were me, I'd temporarily remove the timing belt cover and the alternator belt as mentioned earlier, and give a good hard listen to the front of the engine. Be careful around that spinning timing belt of course.

Another possibility that is very rare is that the starter motor gear isn't retracting all the way after starting, and the ring gear on the flywheel is hitting the starter motor gear very slightly. But again, this is rare and I've never seen it happen in person (just hear stories).

-Bryan

[FiatRunner]

I had a couple hours today to diagnose and troubleshoot.

I took the fan belt off, and made sure that the timing belt cover wasn't contacting anything. I didn't take it completely off, as I didn't have enough time to remove the radiator hose, but I inspected underneath it. All of the timing belt pulleys were secured tight, as they should be. I removed the air filter/cleaner assembly, and checked a ton of bolts around the engine to make sure they were all tight.

Still hearing the noise. It happens especially when the engine is slowing down in speed, like if you revved it and let off the gas.

I'm out of ideas. It still sounds like it's coming from the top of the engine, but it is difficult to hear with the stethoscope/screwdriver. It's easier to hear when you are just listening, which makes me feel like it's something on the outside, but I really can't seem to figure it out. Next weekend I am going to attempt a valve measurement/adjustment. I don't know what else it could be.

I took it for a test drive today and I could still hear it. And to make matters worse, as I was turning around in somebody's driveway, the shifter just went limp when I tried to shift into reverse. It was obvious that it wasn't moving anything at all. I wasn't able to shift into any gears. Got the car towed home, and the nut on the bottom of the shifter had come loose. It's fixed now, but it was a major pain and shouldn't have happened.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

... and the nut on the bottom of the shifter had come loose.

Could the source of your noise be the shifter assembly as it was slowly loosening up?

-Bryan

[FiatRunner]

I don't think so. It still made the noise after I fixed it.

I briefly considered that myself, but the noise still seems to be coming out of the top/front of the motor. I think if it was the shifter it would get drowned out by the engine noise and sound deadening.

[Nut124]

It still sounds like a spark to me. I know you checked for this, but...

Some aftermarket electronic ignitions have dual spark. It could be that the second spark is arcing somewhere.

[kilrwail]

Try placing your stethoscope/screwdriver on each of the valve covers, exhaust manifold and intake manifold. If that doesn't help isolate the sound, disconnect the main coil wire at the distributor and have someone turn over the engine with the starter, while you listen at all the places we've suggested, especially the distributor. That will help eliminate the ignition system as the cause.

[kilrwail]

If you can still hear the ticking with the coil wire disconnected, take the distributor cap off and turn the engine over some more with the starter. I'm willing to bet you need a new cap.

[FiatRunner]

I took the distributor cap off again today, and I inspected it again for signs of contact, and there still isn't any. I also made sure that the electronic ignition was the correct model, a Pertronix MR-LS1.

I ordered a new cap and rotor anyway. Might as well. The noise seems to be happening a bit less frequently, but It's definitely still there. It is still easier to hear without the stethoscope/screwdriver. It also only seems to happen when the engine is running... which still makes me hope that it's something on the outside.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I listened to your video yet again, with the volume cranked up. Just before the ticking sound appears, I can barely hear a deeper metallic knock, but sort of like a bell. Any chance something is loose in the flywheel or clutch area? Have you put the car up on a rack (or solid jack stands) and listened from below?

-Bryan

[FiatRunner]

I can barely hear a deeper metallic knock, but sort of like a bell. Any chance something is loose in the flywheel or clutch area?

I listened to the video again myself, and I can also hear the noise you are talking about. You're right, it does sound like a flywheel noise, but I've never heard it before. The car has 29k miles, and I'm the third owner, so I'm fairly certain that the transmission and engine have never been separated, and that it has the original clutch. I've had the car running while on a lift, and I didn't hear it, but I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'm not sure why it could be heard in the video, maybe because of the low quality microphone on my phone? I'm not sure.

Maybe it is intake noise? I'd be surprised if it was the flywheel/clutch. I sure hope it isn't.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I have to admit this has me stumped. Where are you located? Any chance that someone familiar with Fiat engines is relatively close by, and could take a look? Errr, take a listen, I mean....

-Bryan

[FiatRunner]

I live in the western suburbs of Chicago...

There's an Italian car specialist mechanic nearby that I know of, but I don't have the spare cash to pay for a specialist mechanic to diagnose it. I might over the winter, but it would probably still put a significant dent in my bank account. I was planning on rebuilding the front suspension/steering over the winter, but that can probably wait if the noise persists.