GOT IT! The butane blow torch and wax did the job on the 3rd go. I was terrified I would set the car on fire! Thank you soooo much for the advice. I wish I had a fraction of your skill set. Can anyone tell me how to upload photos to my posts?

Can't wait to get out on the roads this summer.

Charles

SpiderGuy, thats's a great story and the pictures are awesome. Thanks for sharing!

charlielucky wrote:GOT IT! The butane blow torch and wax did the job on the 3rd go. I was terrified I would set the car on fire! Thank you soooo much for the advice. I wish I had a fraction of your skill set. Can anyone tell me how to upload photos to my posts?

Can't wait to get out on the roads this summer.

Charles

Charles, Right click on this link below to see my post on "how to post pictures" to this site
http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic ... 12&t=40524

That's Great that the Magic Wax and Heat trick did the trick for you. One small victory for Man, one Giant Victory for FIAT-KIND. And you added another Skill to your bag of tricks.

I learned 99.9% of everything I know from someone who taught me, because someone taught them, because that guy learned it from the previous cave man. So I love to pass-on any knowledge I have to another guy who can use it.

I still remember like it was yesterday when a very old Machinist took me over to the Oxy/Acet Torch, showed me how to turn on the gas, light the flame, dial it down to a point and heat up a stuck bolt, then feed the wax to it. I was amazed to see how the rusted crusted stuck bolt that I thought was IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE came loose like magic. Anytime you heat IRON OXIDE(RUST) up Red Hot it looses all it's crusty super power, it kind of burns away turns to dust.

I learned tons of things from working in a old school machine shop with guys who had ALIEN SKILLS when it comes to Engines , Boring Blocks, Milling Heads, turning Brake Discs and Drums, cutting things on the Lathe, Polishing and Balancing Crankshafts, measuring parts down to the 1-10 thousands of an inch, magnafluxing parts, etc.

I also worked in a Body Shop for about 10 Yrs doing mostly Paint, and some Body work as well, so those skills are real handy to have.
Then I did Carpentry Framing Houses and Pouring foundations, Remodling for 6 yrs. also good skills to have.

Here is a link to show you HOW TO POST PICTURES that I had made previously......someone must have shown me how..because like everything else I didn't invent it.

Right Click on the link below
http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic ... 12&t=40524

Lets see some Pictures of your Spiders !!

Cheers to All,
Keith

SpiderGuy wrote:Anytime you heat IRON OXIDE(RUST) up Red Hot it looses all it's crusty super power, it kind of burns away turns to dust.

My background and career were in chemistry, so I was thinking about this. Rust (iron oxide) is converted to iron in a blast furnace which passes carbon monoxide or carbon through the molten iron oxide to pull the oxygen off the iron oxide molecule, leaving just iron.

I wonder if this is what is going on. Wax (candles) are meant to be burned, which is just another way of saying it combusts with the oxygen in the air. Perhaps the wax in this case combusts with the oxygen from the rust, and lo and behold, you're left with iron and combusted wax. The wax also prevents oxygen and moisture from getting to the rust, which would just cause more rust.

Heating the rusted bolt to red hot isn't anywhere near the heat of a blast furnace, but maybe it's hot enough for enough rust to be converted back to iron so that the bolt comes loose.

Better living through chemistry.

-Bryan

Bryan,
The chemistry stuff is beyond my Knuckle Dragging Cave Man pay grade, it's all just BLACK MAGIC to me!
But I do LOVE SPARKS and FIRE FIRE FIRE !!

I've been working on my primitive Fire Making and Flint Napping / Knife making skills. I Have learned to start Fire with Flint Stone and Steel, Quartz Rocks, Tinder and Ashes Friction Rolled between 2 Logs, Ferroceruim Rod Sparks into Chaga Fungus and a few other magic SPARK and FIRE techniques. Did I mention I LOVE FIRE !!
And there is lots of SPARKS and FIRE FIRE FIRE going on inside of our FIATS!
We Just have to make sure it all stays only where we want it too









CHEERS GUYs,
Keith the Cave Man AKA the "SpiderGuy"

Fireman Keith, you are The Man. I need someone like you close by to teach me the tricks. My learning comes from making many mistakes, with an occasional YouTube video thrown in for good measure.

-Bryan

Thanks for the photo upload information. I'm feeling very stupid because I can't remember which wire goes where on the courtesy light ! I know I should have taken a photo. The water pump I purchased from Arnold classics in Germany looks the same but the bolt holes are bigger than the originals. I was wondering if I should try and find some tubes or whatever they are called so that the bolts will be dead centre in the holes. Do you think I can just line up the pump and by tightening the bolts it will be solid and not leak? Also I'm going to do my first ever timing belt change tomorrow and pray I don't get it wrong. How do I know if it is tight enough?

I started off life doing an apprenticeship as a cabinet maker in the UK. When I realised that making a living at that game was beyond me I went travelling and ended up spending 10 years in Japan. Not sure how it happened but I got into the TV and film business and had a half decent career as a production manager. I recently retired so my car that was a wedding present from my wife 30 years ago, is about to get back on the road after 25 years in the barn. Hopefully....

charlielucky wrote:I'm feeling very stupid because I can't remember which wire goes where on the courtesy light ! I know I should have taken a photo.

The courtesy light on an '81 spider should have 3 wires to it: A red/black wire which has power on it at all times, a white black wire which goes to the car body ground, and a black wire that is grounded at the door jamb switches. The red/black wire goes to the side of the courtesy light that connects directly to the bulb, and the other two wires to go the two switch contacts that then go to the bulb, but I don't think it matters which way. Connect them one way, and if you want the courtesy light to come on when the switch lever is pushed in the opposite direction, just reverse the white/black and black wires.

charlielucky wrote:Do you think I can just line up the pump and by tightening the bolts it will be solid and not leak?

I think so. I just center the water pump impeller by feel in the hole in the block so that it doesn't rub on the edge of the hole when the shaft is turned, and then tighten it down in that position.

charlielucky wrote:Also I'm going to do my first ever timing belt change tomorrow and pray I don't get it wrong. How do I know if it is tight enough?

Feel free to ask questions. There is an automatic tensioning device for the belt, with a coiled spring in the bracket that holds the tensioner bearing. I put the belt on, making sure it's timed right, and then I turn the engine over by hand a few times (with a socket on the crankshaft nut), and then I tighten the nut on the outside of the bearing and the bolt on the tensioner bracket. Put some miles on the engine, and then recheck the belt tension. The belt should not be absurdly tight when you press on it with your finger, but it shouldn't deflect a half inch either. "Snug" is how I'd describe it. But, the spring tensioner should get this right.

-Bryan

charlielucky wrote:
Thanks for the photo upload information. I recently retired so my car that was a wedding present from my wife 30 years ago, is about to get back on the road after 25 years in the barn. Hopefully....

Lets see some photos of your Spider !!!

Where on this Big Blue Glob of Rotating Stone and Water are you located at?
You owned it for 30 yrs - 25yrs in the barn WOW, that's sooo cool

Lets see some pictures of your Spider !!

HI, I tried my best to get the timing belt on without success. Before taking off the old belt I placed wood wedges behind the cam wheels to block them in place. I managed to get the new belt on once, but the auxiliary wheel was not quite in the right position. When I took the belt of and tried again I just couldn't get the belt to line up properly on the cam wheels. I've asked a more knowledgeable friend to come over and give me a hand. Is the position of the auxiliary pulley critical?

charlielucky wrote:Is the position of the auxiliary pulley critical?

Sort of. There is a timing hole in the aux. shaft pulley, and that should be at about the 1 o'clock position when the #1 piston is at TDC and the camshaft pulley marks are lined up with the pointer bracket (or the nubs on the front of the camshaft housings). This timing avoids a potential clash between the auxiliary shaft and the #2 connecting rod. Doesn't happen on all engines, but I believe it does happen on the 2 liter engines.

My method for putting on a timing belt: Wrap the belt around the crankshaft gear, then the auxiliary shaft pulley (timed correctly), then up to the intake cam pulley. Place the belt behind the exhaust cam pulley. Then, while pushing on the tensioner bearing with your left hand, work the belt forward onto the teeth of the exhaust cam pulley with your right hand. Check your work in terms of timing, turn the engine over a few times by hand, then tighten the tensioner bearing and bracket bolts/nuts. Start it up, see where you are, enjoy, and recheck the belt tension after a hundred miles or so.

-Bryan

Hi everybody, just a final footnote to my water pump saga. I put the cooling system back together yesterday and this morning I filled the car with water ( almost 9 litres). The car started first go and the engine runs beautifully with the new timing belt and water pump. The new heater core doesn't leak so I'm one happy puppy.

The weather here in Brittany is pretty awful this weekend so the road test will have to wait until next week. Doesn't matter because my wife and I are off to spend the week end on the Normandy landing beaches. I'll be going to Omaha beach and Pegasus bridge so I'll raise my glass to all your brave GI's that sacrificed everything for us.

A bientôt

Charles

Merci, Charles! And I'm glad to hear your car is running well.

-Bryan

Hello Bryan, I forgot to ask a question. When I changed the timing belt, I tightened the 38mm nut as much as possible. I noticed in the workshop manual that there is a torque specification for this nut. I tightened it with a standard 38mm spanner with the car in 4th gear and a friend had his foot on the brakes. Am I right in assuming that the nut just gets tighter as the engine runs? In the sense that the engine turns clockwise along with the nut.

Charles

Congratulations Charlie

After all these years the test drive will be amazing. Enjoy your ride. Also have a fabulous trip to Normandy

Yes some photos of the car on the road will make a delightful post. Can't wait to see them.