I've converted my dual points system to single set of points. For a replacement condenser, what should I buy? IAP and other suppliers list 2 different condensers for the dual-points system but I can't get any information on what the difference is between them (if any).
Can I use either one?
Is there a more readily available replacement? (the places I checked are quoting 7-12 days)
distributor condenser
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manoa matt
- Posts: 3442
- Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:28 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider 1800
- Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
The only difference is the length of the wire lead (pigtail)
One side has a longer lead than the other so they can be mounted outside the distributor and the leads will reach their respective points on either side of the distributor plate. Other than that, the condensers are the same.
Here is a link to Murrays auto parts:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList ... ers%2fKits
The online price is cheeper than in store price. If you print out the info and price of the condenser you want, they will honor the online price when you go to the store. You may want to call your local Murrays and give them the parts numbers to see if they have it in stock before you go.
Buy 2, and have a spare in the glovebox so you don't get stranded anywhere. Might want to replace points while your at it, also keep a spare.
Matt
One side has a longer lead than the other so they can be mounted outside the distributor and the leads will reach their respective points on either side of the distributor plate. Other than that, the condensers are the same.
Here is a link to Murrays auto parts:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList ... ers%2fKits
The online price is cheeper than in store price. If you print out the info and price of the condenser you want, they will honor the online price when you go to the store. You may want to call your local Murrays and give them the parts numbers to see if they have it in stock before you go.
Buy 2, and have a spare in the glovebox so you don't get stranded anywhere. Might want to replace points while your at it, also keep a spare.
Matt
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manoa matt
- Posts: 3442
- Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:28 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider 1800
- Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Did you ask if they carried the other 3 brands? Try around a few places those condensers should fit various other cars with points.
Niehoff: WA251 or WA 252
Standard Motor Products: MA119 or MA 121
Borg Wagner: G608 or G610
GP Sorensen: 215029 or 215032
You may want to check to see if the condenser is grounded. The body of the condenser is attached to the body of the distributor with a small screw. The body of the condenser is grounded to the distributor, which is grounded to the engine.
Take the condenser off and clean the tab surface that touches the distributor. Also clean the surface of the distributor where the condenser mounts. One way to make shure the condneser is grounded is to attach a jumper wire (wire with alligator clips at both ends). Attach one end of the wire to the condenser body and attach the other end to a metal part on the engine or the fender body.
If you get the car running with the jumper wire attached, then waight a minute and disconnect it to see what effect a no ground condition will have on the condenser.
The coil bracket must also be grounded to the body. Take that off and clean the mating surfaces.
Let us know what symptoms you are experiencing. Did the symptoms occur on their own? Did they occur as a result of replacing other ignition components?
I'll be in Chicago on the 3rd thru 6th for a friends wedding. I have several new condensers that I'm not going to use as I have switched to the electronic dist and coil from a 79.
I also have an extra origional electronic distributor and coil from a 79 if you are intestered I could bring it with me.
Matt
Niehoff: WA251 or WA 252
Standard Motor Products: MA119 or MA 121
Borg Wagner: G608 or G610
GP Sorensen: 215029 or 215032
You may want to check to see if the condenser is grounded. The body of the condenser is attached to the body of the distributor with a small screw. The body of the condenser is grounded to the distributor, which is grounded to the engine.
Take the condenser off and clean the tab surface that touches the distributor. Also clean the surface of the distributor where the condenser mounts. One way to make shure the condneser is grounded is to attach a jumper wire (wire with alligator clips at both ends). Attach one end of the wire to the condenser body and attach the other end to a metal part on the engine or the fender body.
If you get the car running with the jumper wire attached, then waight a minute and disconnect it to see what effect a no ground condition will have on the condenser.
The coil bracket must also be grounded to the body. Take that off and clean the mating surfaces.
Let us know what symptoms you are experiencing. Did the symptoms occur on their own? Did they occur as a result of replacing other ignition components?
I'll be in Chicago on the 3rd thru 6th for a friends wedding. I have several new condensers that I'm not going to use as I have switched to the electronic dist and coil from a 79.
I also have an extra origional electronic distributor and coil from a 79 if you are intestered I could bring it with me.
Matt
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baggins987
Symptoms
When I called Murrays they couldn't get any of the condensers until next week. I'll call around today to see if any other parts stores can get them earlier. Meanwhile I'll do the checks you suggested.
Symptoms - this should probably be under Engine & Tuning but since we're here... Also not sure how much detail to include ... but to be safe I'll go back to the very beginning.
Apr '06: Bought the car; running but rough, rich, backfiring, etc. PO said he'd had it tuned w new points etc.; mechanic had suggested (to PO) rebuilding carb (32 ADFA). (not sure how much I believe PO)
Installed carb rebuild kit and adjusted choke etc. Car started right up and ran great until I drove about 5 mi, then started backfiring & died. Couldn't restart until car sat for 4-5 hrs, then same problem - ran great for a few minutes, then backfiring/dying out. Choke appeared to be operating correctly.
Summer '06: replaced starter 3x, new fan switch, removed & readjusted carb. Thru this period car was very hard to start and only ran for 1-2 min before dying.
Oct. '06: replaced coil & rotor, adjusted points gap & timing (w/o light).
Same symptoms.
June '07: gave up and took car to mechanic who checked coil, points, adjusted timing. He was going to convert to single points but found one set jumpered out at a relay under the dash. The condenser on the set being used was bad; replaced it with the unused one and the car fired right up and ran great.
I drove the car for a weekend and found the battery leaking. Replaced the battery, alternator, and oil pressure sensor (don't ask).
Car ran great that evening and the next morning to work. On trip home from work the car ran great for about 3 mi, then suddenly started running rough, backfiring, and died - same as Apr '06.
Haven't had time or inclination to work on the car this week, but thought that replacing the condenser would be a cheap/easy thing to try. I also plan to reverify choke operation and check for vac leaks, and the other checks you mentioned.
Any other suggestions? If it turns out to be the condenser, what would cause it to fail? Could it be related to faulty alternator? Or both related to something else?
Thanks for all the info and suggestions. Sorry for the lengthy post.
Symptoms - this should probably be under Engine & Tuning but since we're here... Also not sure how much detail to include ... but to be safe I'll go back to the very beginning.
Apr '06: Bought the car; running but rough, rich, backfiring, etc. PO said he'd had it tuned w new points etc.; mechanic had suggested (to PO) rebuilding carb (32 ADFA). (not sure how much I believe PO)
Installed carb rebuild kit and adjusted choke etc. Car started right up and ran great until I drove about 5 mi, then started backfiring & died. Couldn't restart until car sat for 4-5 hrs, then same problem - ran great for a few minutes, then backfiring/dying out. Choke appeared to be operating correctly.
Summer '06: replaced starter 3x, new fan switch, removed & readjusted carb. Thru this period car was very hard to start and only ran for 1-2 min before dying.
Oct. '06: replaced coil & rotor, adjusted points gap & timing (w/o light).
Same symptoms.
June '07: gave up and took car to mechanic who checked coil, points, adjusted timing. He was going to convert to single points but found one set jumpered out at a relay under the dash. The condenser on the set being used was bad; replaced it with the unused one and the car fired right up and ran great.
I drove the car for a weekend and found the battery leaking. Replaced the battery, alternator, and oil pressure sensor (don't ask).
Car ran great that evening and the next morning to work. On trip home from work the car ran great for about 3 mi, then suddenly started running rough, backfiring, and died - same as Apr '06.
Haven't had time or inclination to work on the car this week, but thought that replacing the condenser would be a cheap/easy thing to try. I also plan to reverify choke operation and check for vac leaks, and the other checks you mentioned.
Any other suggestions? If it turns out to be the condenser, what would cause it to fail? Could it be related to faulty alternator? Or both related to something else?
Thanks for all the info and suggestions. Sorry for the lengthy post.
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So Cal Mark
backfiring and no starts are symptoms of a bad condensor. You can run without the condensor for a short time to diagnose the trouble, but don't try it for any length of time; the life of the points will be shortened without a cond attached.
When I convert to single points, I jumper the connector at the relay; that way there is an extra set of points and cond in the dist as spares in case of a failure. All it takes is switching the feed wire over to use the spare set.
When I convert to single points, I jumper the connector at the relay; that way there is an extra set of points and cond in the dist as spares in case of a failure. All it takes is switching the feed wire over to use the spare set.
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baggins987
Matt and Mark,
thanks for the help; I put a new condenser today and "Bucky" is running great again
Matt, thanks for the offer of the parts but I found some at a local Advance Auto (and am stocking up on some spares). I'm not sure about the '79 distributor; I'm thinking I might go electronic ignition in the near future.
So, I'm still curious - what could cause 2 condensers to fail in a relatively short time period? Should I be looking for some other problem?
thanks for the help; I put a new condenser today and "Bucky" is running great again
Matt, thanks for the offer of the parts but I found some at a local Advance Auto (and am stocking up on some spares). I'm not sure about the '79 distributor; I'm thinking I might go electronic ignition in the near future.
So, I'm still curious - what could cause 2 condensers to fail in a relatively short time period? Should I be looking for some other problem?
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So Cal Mark
back in the day, before electronic ignitions became required, points and condensors were changed at least once a year, or every 10,000 miles. OEMs switched to electronic ignitions when federal emission requirements stipulated that a car had to stay within standards for 50000 miles. There is no way a points system can last that long, so electronic ignitions became the standard. Bottom line is that points and condensors have a pretty short life.