Hi all!
I’m in central CA, and I’m looking for my first Fiat Spider. I’ve been looking at ‘75 and earlier to avoid smog, or 80s fuel injection models that already have passed CA smog. I’m looking for a fun project car to work on with my kids, and ideally would like to improve performance a bit.
From what I’ve read in my lurking, it seems like there are plenty of things to get the carb cars to Euro spec or better and have a great little car. However, the fuel injected 2.0L and its torque may perform well enough in stock form. And rust on some of the older cars sounds especially nightmarish.
Would love any thoughts and guidance. Is CA smog that big of a deal for the fuel injected cars? Are there any performance enhancements for these that should be fine for CA smog? Or should I stick with pre-smog cars and wait for rust free example?
Thanks!
Hello from CA
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Hello from CA
Welcome! Where in Central CA? I know a fellow down near Santa Cruz that is selling a pretty clean 1971 spider (I've seen it), and I could put you in touch with him if you're interested.
Many California and Arizona spiders do not have rust issues although there are exceptions. As you noted, 1975 and older are preferred due to being exempt from smog tests in CA (that could always change). FI cars usually do fine on smog tests, but there can be issues, usually with the ECU not getting accurate temperature readings from the engine, or the air flap in the AFM acting up.
Performance can be subjective, and when running right, the spiders are a blast to drive in stock form. Admittedly, the early engines do not have the torque of the 2Liter versions, but given the lighter weight of the early cars, they can hold their own against the later cars although you do have to crank up the rpms. Not everyone likes that.
I'm in Livermore, lots of Fiat parts, and always with an engine or two on my bench being worked on.
-Bryan
Many California and Arizona spiders do not have rust issues although there are exceptions. As you noted, 1975 and older are preferred due to being exempt from smog tests in CA (that could always change). FI cars usually do fine on smog tests, but there can be issues, usually with the ECU not getting accurate temperature readings from the engine, or the air flap in the AFM acting up.
Performance can be subjective, and when running right, the spiders are a blast to drive in stock form. Admittedly, the early engines do not have the torque of the 2Liter versions, but given the lighter weight of the early cars, they can hold their own against the later cars although you do have to crank up the rpms. Not everyone likes that.
I'm in Livermore, lots of Fiat parts, and always with an engine or two on my bench being worked on.
-Bryan
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slc302
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:53 pm
- Your car is a: 2016 Mazda CX-5
Re: Hello from CA
Thanks, Bryan! I’m close to Fresno now after being in SoCal for many years.
Appreciate the perspective on models and engines. I had a fox body Mustang eons ago with some bolt-on parts on the 5.0 V8. Everything had a CARB number and it ran very cleanly, but still had a hard time with the smog visual inspection. Hence my smog concerns.
I’d be interested in a 71, so that would be great if you could put me in touch. Thanks!
-Sean
Appreciate the perspective on models and engines. I had a fox body Mustang eons ago with some bolt-on parts on the 5.0 V8. Everything had a CARB number and it ran very cleanly, but still had a hard time with the smog visual inspection. Hence my smog concerns.
I’d be interested in a 71, so that would be great if you could put me in touch. Thanks!
-Sean
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Hello from CA
Hi Sean, I'll send you a PM with his number. He said to text rather than call.
-Bryan
-Bryan
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wizard124
- Posts: 752
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:27 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 124 spider FI
- Location: Sheridan, WY exSan Rafael, CA
Re: Hello from CA
Sean,
I bought my 1980 FI spider about 12 years ago. I didn't know a thing about FI so I was a bit hesitant. I spoke to a local Fiat mechanic (he was also selling some carburetor cars at that time) who talked me into the benefits of FI.
The engine was running pretty well when I bought her. I was also lucky in that my car came with many spare parts and some factory manuals. There are many on-line guides to early Bosch L-jetronic fuel injection as it is common to Alfas, BMW, Mercedes. etc.
This same mechanic replaced the Cat with a CARB certified one and was able to get it smogged. I tracked down some gremlins including problems with the Auxiliary Air Valve, replaced the Cold Start Valve, and advanced the timing a bit and have never had a problem getting it smogged other than the fact many shops had never seen a spider before.
My car has remained completely stock. I have never been in the engine. The FI cars add about 15-20 hp over the late 90 cars since all the smog crap was removed. The cam sprocket driven smog pump was prone to failure (as I understand it) which caused the main cam belt to jump teeth. Since these 2000s are interference engines the repairs were quite expensive.
I moved out of California so smog checks are behind me. The idea of adding performance mods to the engine is appealing however the stock FI car is a lot of fun to drive as is.
I once owned a '71 124 Sport Coupe. I added twin IDF Webers, 20/80 cams, and headers with Ansa exhaust. I regret not adding HC pistons but was talked out of it by a mechanic at that time. I recall constantly adjusting the carbs. When smog was coming due, I'd swap back the original carb and manifold, PITA.
If you can find a '75 or newer or a decent FI, I would steer you to those choices if smog checks are a concern.
Warren
I bought my 1980 FI spider about 12 years ago. I didn't know a thing about FI so I was a bit hesitant. I spoke to a local Fiat mechanic (he was also selling some carburetor cars at that time) who talked me into the benefits of FI.
The engine was running pretty well when I bought her. I was also lucky in that my car came with many spare parts and some factory manuals. There are many on-line guides to early Bosch L-jetronic fuel injection as it is common to Alfas, BMW, Mercedes. etc.
This same mechanic replaced the Cat with a CARB certified one and was able to get it smogged. I tracked down some gremlins including problems with the Auxiliary Air Valve, replaced the Cold Start Valve, and advanced the timing a bit and have never had a problem getting it smogged other than the fact many shops had never seen a spider before.
My car has remained completely stock. I have never been in the engine. The FI cars add about 15-20 hp over the late 90 cars since all the smog crap was removed. The cam sprocket driven smog pump was prone to failure (as I understand it) which caused the main cam belt to jump teeth. Since these 2000s are interference engines the repairs were quite expensive.
I moved out of California so smog checks are behind me. The idea of adding performance mods to the engine is appealing however the stock FI car is a lot of fun to drive as is.
I once owned a '71 124 Sport Coupe. I added twin IDF Webers, 20/80 cams, and headers with Ansa exhaust. I regret not adding HC pistons but was talked out of it by a mechanic at that time. I recall constantly adjusting the carbs. When smog was coming due, I'd swap back the original carb and manifold, PITA.
If you can find a '75 or newer or a decent FI, I would steer you to those choices if smog checks are a concern.
Warren
'80 spider FI, SnugTop hardtop
http://s940.photobucket.com/user/a7ewiz ... t=3&page=1
http://s940.photobucket.com/user/a7ewiz ... t=3&page=1
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slc302
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:53 pm
- Your car is a: 2016 Mazda CX-5
Re: Hello from CA
Thanks for your thoughts, Warren!
As a quick update, I now have my own 1971 124 Spider. Thanks for the connection, Bryan!
As a quick update, I now have my own 1971 124 Spider. Thanks for the connection, Bryan!
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wizard124
- Posts: 752
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:27 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 124 spider FI
- Location: Sheridan, WY exSan Rafael, CA
Re: Hello from CA
Congratulations on your purchase of the '71!
My first car purchase was a '71 124 Sport Coupe. I wanted a Spider but couldn't afford one at the time as they commanded more money. I think I purchased it in 1977. I had it through college, to Pensacola for my Navy commissioning, and to South Texas for flight school. Alas, in 1987, I traded it in for a new Toyota Supra. The heat was killing me and I needed air conditioning. That Toyota featured a belt driven double overhead cam engine, 5 speed manual, and 4 wheel disk brakes which shows how far ahead their time that '71 Fiat was!
Great memories of that '71! Enjoy yours.
My first car purchase was a '71 124 Sport Coupe. I wanted a Spider but couldn't afford one at the time as they commanded more money. I think I purchased it in 1977. I had it through college, to Pensacola for my Navy commissioning, and to South Texas for flight school. Alas, in 1987, I traded it in for a new Toyota Supra. The heat was killing me and I needed air conditioning. That Toyota featured a belt driven double overhead cam engine, 5 speed manual, and 4 wheel disk brakes which shows how far ahead their time that '71 Fiat was!
Great memories of that '71! Enjoy yours.
'80 spider FI, SnugTop hardtop
http://s940.photobucket.com/user/a7ewiz ... t=3&page=1
http://s940.photobucket.com/user/a7ewiz ... t=3&page=1
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rdv
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:34 am
- Your car is a: 69 AS Spider
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
Re: Hello from CA
Hi Sean,
congratulations to your buy! Of course we want to see some pics of this new forum car!
Hope the car is driveable and you already can enjoy some rides?!
Cheer Ralf
PS: Would like to include your car into the worldwide Spider Register, if it's not already listed!
congratulations to your buy! Of course we want to see some pics of this new forum car!
Hope the car is driveable and you already can enjoy some rides?!
Cheer Ralf
PS: Would like to include your car into the worldwide Spider Register, if it's not already listed!
69 AS Spider
-------------------------------
the Worldwide Spider Register
Be part of it and register your car(s). Starting point here:
https://www.fiatspider.de/worldwide-spider-register
-------------------------------
the Worldwide Spider Register
Be part of it and register your car(s). Starting point here:
https://www.fiatspider.de/worldwide-spider-register
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Hello from CA
Sure thing, Sean, glad it worked out! Kevin seems like a good guy, and his '71 spider (now yours) seemed to be very nice. Keep me in mind should you need parts (usually free) or expertise (always free). One of my spiders is also a '71, and its engine is currently on my bench getting a rebuild. Next will be the transmission once it cools down a bit.
-Bryan
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slc302
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:53 pm
- Your car is a: 2016 Mazda CX-5
Re: Hello from CA
Thanks, Ralf! I’ll have to add some pictures. It is very drivable and only requires little projects to keep it moving forward.rdv wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 1:42 pm Hi Sean,
congratulations to your buy! Of course we want to see some pics of this new forum car!
Hope the car is driveable and you already can enjoy some rides?!
Cheer Ralf
PS: Would like to include your car into the worldwide Spider Register, if it's not already listed!
And I did check and my car is in the registry!
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slc302
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:53 pm
- Your car is a: 2016 Mazda CX-5
Re: Hello from CA
18Fiatsandcounting wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2024 8:46 pmSure thing, Sean, glad it worked out! Kevin seems like a good guy, and his '71 spider (now yours) seemed to be very nice. Keep me in mind should you need parts (usually free) or expertise (always free). One of my spiders is also a '71, and its engine is currently on my bench getting a rebuild. Next will be the transmission once it cools down a bit.
-Bryan
Many thanks, Bryan! I have started creating a long list of projects, but I do have some questions related to ‘71-specific things (throttle linkage, tail light options, etc.). I’ll post elsewhere in the forum about these things, but may reach out if needed.
What are your goals for your ‘71? Historical accuracy, performance, etc.?
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18Fiatsandcounting
- Posts: 3798
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:23 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
- Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Hello from CA
A little bit of everything. I'm not interested in concours level appearance, or anything close, but I do like everything mechanical to work as it should. So my '71 is a bit of a "test bed" to run experiments on, tinker with, and try to learn everything I can about how the cars are put together. I've also started some documentation of various areas, like transmissions, engine design, emission control stuff, etc. Everything from the part number for the rear layshaft bearing in the transmission to the deck height of a 1608 engine, to which bolt/stud holes in the block and head go into oil or coolant passages, to how the turn signals/hazards are wired in the early cars. Just tinkering.
-Bryan