Monumental Screw Up

[courtenay]

So here I was feeling pretty good about myself, having changed the timing belt and water pump. All running well until I noticed coolant under the car - apparently leaking from around the water pump.

So I tightened the bolts/nuts I could get at - still leaking. Off comes the fan and pump pulley, and so I can tighten up the remaining bolts. Snap goes one of the little suckers - broken off flush with the block. Now I used Permatex Gasket Maker to seal the gasket on the water pump, and it seems to be frozen to the block. I suspect a couple of whacks with a hammer will release that.

I need advice - first re- the hammer whacking to release the Permatex and second to get the blasted broken bolt out of the block.

Needless to say, I'm into my first can of installation fluid - probably the first of many. I have antifreeze all over the floor of my garage- because the bucket I used didn't catch it all - and I've had to yell at my dog to keep her away.

All in all, a wonderful day!!! I knew there was a reason I should stick to projects involving dirt, drywall and lumber!!

[SLOSpider]

If you have a hammer whack on. Its probably leaking at the shaft and not the gasket. Is it a new pump? I would replace it if not or if you find its not the gasket fault. The broken bolt is another matter. If you got a good sharp small chisel you can try to tap a slot in the broke off bolt to create a place a flat screwdriver will fit and try and spin it out. That bolts pretty small so if the screwdriver trick fails you can try and tap around it counter clockwise and see if it moves. If not the start to spray it with good penetrating oil while you go to sears and get a nice screw extractions set with left handed drills and extractors.

[mdrburchette]

What a bummer...and I was so proud of you!

[So Cal Mark]

I would expect you will find the heater pipe to pump connection leaking. It's common for those ears to get bent from overtightening, and that gasket will leak. You have to remove the pipe and straighten the ears, or use a liberal coating of rtv to seal it. Of course with a broken bolt, you get to go a little deeper. Whenever I do a pump, I use a tap and chase all of the threads and use antiseize on the bolts

[manoa matt]

The last three pumps I've encountered have or had broken bolts. If you tightened the bolt and then it broke, you will be lucky, but if you were trying to loosen the bolt and then it broke its a different story.

With your case I would get a dremel with an abrasive cut off wheel, cut a slot in the remaining piece and try to unscrew it.
If the dremel trick fails to remove it, the next recourse is to drill it out. You need to start with a center punch to create a dimple in the exact middle of the bolt, then drill with a 1/16" bit, gradually increase the bit size. You can keep the bit on center by applying gentle pressure laterally as you drill if the hole is not in the center.

Stop at the first sign that you have a hole diameter large enough to see the existing threads. At that point the remainder will usually come out in pieces. If not, try using a tap to break it up and push it out as the tap goes in.

I sand the mating flange of the heater tube flat prior to aplying RTV and installing it, so I know its flat and so excessive RTV does not squish out and float around the cooling system.

[courtenay]

Thanks, Mark. I did check the tube, and the coolant wasn't coming from it. It was from the bottom of the pump itself. As a mechanical idiot, I'm not sure what you mean by "tap and chase" .
Bruce

Denise - I was feeling pretty good myself...oh well, it is a learning experience, and I obviously have a lot to learn!!

[courtenay]

The last three pumps I've encountered have or had broken bolts. If you tightened the bolt and then it broke, you will be lucky, but if you were trying to loosen the bolt and then it broke its a different story.

With your case I would get a dremel with an abrasive cut off wheel, cut a slot in the remaining piece and try to unscrew it.
If the dremel trick fails to remove it, the next recourse is to drill it out. You need to start with a center punch to create a dimple in the exact middle of the bolt, then drill with a 1/16" bit, gradually increase the bit size. You can keep the bit on center by applying gentle pressure laterally as you drill if the hole is not in the center.

Stop at the first sign that you have a hole diameter large enough to see the existing threads. At that point the remainder will usually come out in pieces. If not, try using a tap to break it up and push it out as the tap goes in.

I sand the mating flange of the heater tube flat prior to aplying RTV and installing it, so I know its flat and so excessive RTV does not squish out and float around the cooling system.

Thanks, Matt. The bold did break as I was tightening it, and I had put anti seize on it, I hadn't thought of the dremel trick. I'll try that tomorrow. Any thoughts on using the Permatex?
Bruce

[manoa matt]

A leak out of the bottom of the pump is common, especially if you use inferior RTV sealant. Had this happen a few months ago. Rebuilt the engine 2 years ago and used grey Permetex RTV everywhere. The oil filter mounting boss was the first to weep, then other oil sealed items. As they leaked I removed and resealed them with red RTV by Permatex.

The pump was the last item to start to weep. When I installed the pump 2 years ago it was new, I cleaned the thread holes and applied Anti-seize to the threads prior to installation. Just 2 years later 2 of the bolts snapped as I tried to remove the pump to reseal it with the red RTV.

A "tap" is an item used to cut threads in a hole, or clean up exisitng threads. Google image "tap and die" , you are looking for the item that has threads like a bolt, with chanels cut down the length of the tap.

[courtenay]

I used blue permatex - and now that I read the directions, it says to let it cure for 24 hours. I cranked the thing up as soon as I had refilled the cooling system. I'll try the red permatex this time.

[narfire]

Hi Bruce, now you have fluid all over the floor, has the fiat "marked" its terratory
I guess the addition is for Myra's car now.
The more these things crop up and you solve/fix them,the more confidence you'll have in the other issues that happen time to time with these cars. Good luck,I'm sure you'll have it sorted tomorow. Lordco has a good assortment of metric nuts and bolts . Lordco also sells individual taps in metric I believe and if you drill and it gets away from you they have heli-coil kits for that diameter as well.
I'll be on the cell tomorow if you have a problem. Going down to Langley to look at and perhaps bring home a 75.

[courtenay]

Chris -
Myra is insisting her car is going to be in the main garage. She's not going to walk outside to get in the house. I'm going to tackle the water pump problem tomorrow. Not sure yet how I'm going to deal with the gasket issue, assuming the one that is on there is going to get ruined when I take the pump off. I expect Lordco will have some kind of gasket making material that I can use to make my own.
Good luck with the '75. I'm interested in hearing how you make out. It sounds like a good deal. How are you getting it back to Naramata?
Bruce

[courtenay]

HOO RAY!!! A new day has dawned! Took the water pump off to find the bolt had broken off so that there was a bit showing outside the block. I was able to grab the stub with my pliers, and because I had put antiseize on the thing when I put it in, it came out quite easily. Didn't even damage the gasket which stayed on the block. Off to Lordco to get all new bolts for the thing.
I used Blue Permatex on the gasket. any views on this???

[beachboy]

Bruce, i use Loctite Hi-Tack gasket sealant in a purple stick like a deodorant stick. The stuff is great and stays put on gaskets. The other item is Loctite thread sealant, for bolt that could leak. Aircraft thread sealant is also great. I only use antisieze if the fastener is on the outside.

[htchevyii]

I've had very good results with Hylomar gasket dressing. A British car friend turned me onto it and it it can keep those things from leaking...

[courtenay]

All back together and buttoned up. Going to leave it for a few days to let the gasket seal set. We're off to Vancouver tomorrow for the weekend so it should be all set by the time we get back on Sunday.