Why is it never the first thing you check? (long story)

Maintenance advice to keep your Spider in shape.
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Curly
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:09 am
Your car is a: 1968 AC Coupe and a 1976 CS1 Spider
Location: Gippsland - Victoria, Australia

Why is it never the first thing you check? (long story)

Post by Curly »

I took the Coupe out for run on Friday and noticed that the brake pedal felt strange and that the brakes seemed like they were binding. Being familiar with the habits of the Fiat master cylinder, I immediately sprang to wrong conclusion :oops: and found, that after disconnecting it from the power booster, the problem still remained. What I did notice however, was that the brake lights were staying on long after the pedal was released, but if I helped the pedal to return by pulling it up with my toe it worked OK. Lifting the pedal up each time after use is not conducive to competitive lap times :cry: so it was time to check the function of the pedal box and return spring. If you like working in cramped, confined spaces this would be such a fun job :roll: , but for someone whose youthful flexibility is but a past memory, it's a literal pain in neck, and the back, and the shoulders and ..... :( . Anyway the pedals were removed, and the pivots cleaned and lightly greased.

The clutch pedal was found to be cracked near where the cable fits on, so that was welded up as well. A new clevis pin with a split pin instead of the spring clip arrangement was adapted to take the brake pedal return spring after an inspection of the old pin showed indications of its 40-year history. The pedals were then put back in place (that's a hell of lot easier to write than to perform :!: ) but the problem still remained. :twisted:.

That left only the power booster - so the pedal and master cylinder were disconnected again and the booster extricated from between the firewall, the master cylinder, the extractors, the clutch cable and all the wiring that springs forth from that corner of the engine bay.

On the bench it was obvious that the pushrod (and the large plastic piston that it connects to) was very hard to push in, and once released it didn't return immediately to its resting position. Applications of all manner of chemical concoctions failed to improve the situation, but luckily a spare of unknown heritage but obvious age was found, and to my delight it seemed to be functioning correctly. After another not-inconsiderable battle to reassemble with the replacement unit, I am pleased to report that the problem is solved :D.

A biopsy of the old unit showed that the rubber seal that fits around the large black plastic piston connected to the pushrod, had gone dry and hard, and was binding on the piston slowing down its return. This was effectively keeping the brakes on until the vacuum port was uncovered again by the piston moving back to the rest position.

I now have a perfectly functioning power booster, but due to it's age I am concerned that it too may have deteriorated with age and will eventually fail - and most probably on a 6-day rally in the wilds of Tasmania. So in the next week or 2, I guess I'll be repeating the power booster swap, but this time with a nice new one.

Oh, the joys of classic car ownership. :roll:
pope

Re: Why is it never the first thing you check? (long story)

Post by pope »

First time I have heard the word "extricated" used in this forum! Bravo.
mdrburchette
Posts: 5754
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:49 am
Your car is a: 1972 Fiat 124 Sport
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Re: Why is it never the first thing you check? (long story)

Post by mdrburchette »

Look at the bright side, Curly. You were able to repair potential problems before they happened on the track! Why don't you eliminate the booster all together? It doesn't affect the brake pedal pressure all that much and you won't have to worry over a replacement. You've already done the hard part...taking the booster apart for the rod and plate.
1972 124 Spider (Don)
1971 124 Spider (Juan)
1986 Bertone X19 (Blue)
1978 124 Spider Lemons racer
1974 X19 SCCA racer (Paul)
2012 500 Prima Edizione #19 (Mini Rossa)
Ever changing count of parts cars....It's a disease!
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Curly
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:09 am
Your car is a: 1968 AC Coupe and a 1976 CS1 Spider
Location: Gippsland - Victoria, Australia

Re: Why is it never the first thing you check? (long story)

Post by Curly »

mdrburchette wrote:Look at the bright side, Curly. You were able to repair potential problems before they happened on the track! Why don't you eliminate the booster all together? It doesn't affect the brake pedal pressure all that much and you won't have to worry over a replacement. You've already done the hard part...taking the booster apart for the rod and plate.
I've already tried that - a few of years ago when the diaphram of another booster tore or perished. I drove the final 2 days of an event with the booster disconnected. The brakes still worked fine, but because of the larger front discs and calipers on the front, the pedal pressure required was too great to be really comfortable. The upside was that I was unintentionally going faster and deeper into the corners under brakes, so our times were actually quite fast :wink:
mbouse

Re: Why is it never the first thing you check? (long story)

Post by mbouse »

alway fun, right? glad you found that clutch pedal issue before it tore completely.... and to answer your question, because.

there is no simpler answer than that. because. Why is it never the first thing you check? because.

because if you kept looking after you found the problem, you'd be a fool.

because the light is always brighter somewhere else than where you need to look.

because we are all getting too old to work under a Fiat dash.

because. period.
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