Another Cross Member Bites The Dust

[DieselSpider]

Here are a few shots of the cross member the previous owner put into my 1978 124 Spider about 8,000 miles ago. I believe it is in the process of failing.

Passenger side:


Drivers side:


The previous owner doesn't remember where he got it except to say it was either IAP or Ricambi but is not sure which.

Did this fail because it needed to be shimmed or just due to thin metal and not deep enough welds holding the wrapped ends together?

Sunday I picked up a spare that Vampyrepro had in his barn and will be cleaning it up with a cup brush for a more thorough inspection before refinishing and installing it. The spare which is believed to be OEM appears a bit beefier than whats on there.

Any words of wisdom on other things to check while pursuing this? All the bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc were replaced within the past 8,000 miles however the tie rod ends while appearing new/tight do creak and are the sealed variety so they can't be greased aside from removing the boots and repacking them from there. Physical inspection shows all other components to be good too. I did on principle clean and repack the front wheel bearings which were in good condition replacing the seals. Front calipers have about 8,000 miles on them, flex lines, pads and rotors are new and have only around 1,000 miles on them.

[lanciahf]

Question and thinking out loud here.. How much more does that diesel engine weigh than a 2L. Diesels are pretty heavy aren't they? And yes Fiat Spider front ends are cheaply made. Please remember the car was originally made for a 90hp 1500.

I always wanted to put a Cummins C4 in my 1500 Silverado, but that turbo 4 cyl weighs more than my v8 and all the forums say you have to beef up the frame and front unless its going into a 2500 or 3500 truck.

[DieselSpider]

Question and thinking out loud here.. How much more does that diesel engine weigh than a 2L. Diesels are pretty heavy aren't they? And yes Fiat Spider front ends are cheaply made. Please remember the car was originally made for a 90hp 1500.

I always wanted to put a Cummins C4 in my 1500 Silverado, but that turbo 4 cyl weighs more than my v8 and all the forums say you have to beef up the frame and front unless its going into a 2500 or 3500 truck.

Its a fairly light weight trussed block OHC diesel that was designed for small cars such as an I-Mark, small Holdens and even used in the Chevette. Normally aspirated it rated at something like 65 HP with 81 Lb Ft of torque with the OEM Turbo bringing it to around 80 HP with around 116 Lb Ft of torque. Even though that said I too was concerned about the additional torque under boost pushing things to the limit especially since I have not metered it to see if the gate is set at 5 to 6 psi of boost or substantially higher.

[djape1977]

what you can buy today on the interweb is almost exclusively LADA crossmembers. lada crossmember is completely interchangable with fiat 124.
now, it wouldn't be a bad thing if ruskies haven't gone down money saving route since early 90's. russian crossmembers are made from milder steel and often suffer from manufacturing problems, such as weak welds.
basically, what you need to find is NOS crossmember, from fiat, lada or seat, doesn't really matter which.
if you'r stuck with buying a new one, seem weld all the pieces that make up cross member before instalation.

also, try to find a reason for failure. i've sen 124's with chasis legs so rotten that crossmember was only thing keeping them from going their separate ways. in such cases, crossmember is stressed beyond what it's meant to handle

[DieselSpider]

what you can buy today on the interweb is almost exclusively LADA crossmembers. lada crossmember is completely interchangable with fiat 124.
now, it wouldn't be a bad thing if ruskies haven't gone down money saving route since early 90's. russian crossmembers are made from milder steel and often suffer from manufacturing problems, such as weak welds.
basically, what you need to find is NOS crossmember, from fiat, lada or seat, doesn't really matter which.
if you'r stuck with buying a new one, seem weld all the pieces that make up cross member before instalation.

also, try to find a reason for failure. i've sen 124's with chasis legs so rotten that crossmember was only thing keeping them from going their separate ways. in such cases, crossmember is stressed beyond what it's meant to handle

I already have an OEM Fiat crossmember which I picked up Sunday and on initial inspection it appears to be much sturdier than whats currently in the car. The previous owner mentioned that when he put the new one it seemed a bit shorter than the original. I do not recall why he replaced it exactly but do recall it was about the bolts where the lower control arms attached.

If this one appears short should I consider making up some shims out of steel plate to fill in the gap?

[azruss]

The problem may not be with the cross member being short, but the unibody being stretched. The issue being that shims may make up the difference but you may have the bottom A-arm sticking out farther than the top. The only camber adjustment is on the bottom and you are already to far out on the bottom. If this is the problem then you ready for a trip to the frame shop.

[DieselSpider]

The problem may not be with the cross member being short, but the unibody being stretched. The issue being that shims may make up the difference but you may have the bottom A-arm sticking out farther than the top. The only camber adjustment is on the bottom and you are already to far out on the bottom. If this is the problem then you ready for a trip to the frame shop.

With the short cross member in place they had to use over 1/2" of shims to set the camber. When I slide the OEM in place if it fits tight and needs no shims then I will have a better picture of whats going on. I may possibly repair the aftermarket crossmember to keep as a spare afterwards and tack shims on it to match the OEM's length between the frame rails if there is enough wiggle room there to allow the two bolts going up from the bottom to align on each side.