Structural Damage?

[davery]

I am looking for another daily driver and found the car with all the options a want. According to Carfax, it looks like in May of 2015 it sustained damage, as it says "Damage reported" and "Damage to rear". In Sept of 2015 it says "Vehicle sold at auction", "Structural damage reported", "Unibody damage disclosed by seller based on results of a visual inspection". Looking at it closer, the air bags didn't deploy. I'm not sure if the damage was because of a collision with another car or not. Any ideas what could cause structural damage but not cause the airbags to deploy?

[AriK]

I would think running into a curb head-on or sideways would not necessarily cause the airbags to deploy.

[klweimer]

The airbags will only deploy under very specific circumstances. Lots of hits will not cause them to go off, as it could make matters worse for the occupants. I'd want to see some good pictures of the damage before considering.
Kirk

[davery]

Thanks for the input. As far as I know, there are no pics of the damages prior to repair. In fact, looking at the Carfax there is no record of any repair. Shouldn't that be on the Carfax report? Would any damage to a body panel be considered "structural damage" with a unibody car? Probably the only way to proceed with this car is to see if I could get it inspected by a specialist for this car maker.

[baltobernie]

The airbags will only deploy under very specific circumstances.

Yep. For example, if another vehicle plowed into your car from the rear while you were stationary, your air bags would not deploy. I suspect this was the case in this instance.

Would any damage to a body panel be considered "structural damage" with a unibody car?

No. And if the owner did not submit an insurance claim (perhaps he paid for repairs himself), it would not appear on a CarFax report.

Probably the only way to proceed with this car is to see if I could get it inspected by a specialist for this car maker.

Yes. I'd also insist on a 4-wheel alignment check. The PO may have repaired the cosmetics, but the car could be crooked. In that case

[TX82FIAT]

Don't place too much faith in Carfax for reliable or complete information. While it is better now then when it first came out because of the increase in sources of information complied. There is NO mandatory reporting requirement. No all body shops report, not all insurance companies report, reports are often significantly delayed I still laugh every time someone walks into a dealership and asks to see the carfax. Advertising at its best. Carfax info is only based on the information supplied to them. The most common oversight is when an accident or damage occurs and the police are not called. Huge hail storms are a hoot. I was in the car business for 25 years before moving into another line of work about three years ago. Carfax is no assurance, it is a marketing ploy.

[RRoller123]

+1 on that. My Brother In Law is an auto industry trial lawyer, works both sides (not at the same time.... ) and indicated to me that it is pretty much useless. His firm tried it for awhile and found almost no data on any of the cases that came across the desk for months on end, and he finally gave up on it.

[davery]

i understand the limitations of a Carfax report. I also know that done used car vendors use reporting issues with Carfax to their advantage. In fact, the car I am looking at did not have the damage reported on Carfax until over a year afterward, which looks like AFTER this dealer acquired it. I found a company, True Frame, that will inspect the structure of a vehicle. It looks like they mostly do this by measuring key points on the car, but they also look for welded on structural body parts. They say they guarantee their reports. Has anyone ever used them? My concern is they actually do this inspection at the dealer, so I'm not sure how this can be done without a lift. Also, it appears they may share this report (that I pay for) with the dealer and that would not be something I would want done. I also found who I think was the owner when the damage occurred. I may try and contact them later today. I also have from Carfax the name of the dealer that serviced the car after the damage and I may try and contact them also. I don't know if they can, or will, give me any info; but it's worth a shot. Thanks for all the info and suggestions.

My head keeps telling me to run, but my heart keeps sucking me back in. I had this happen one other time with an 85 Jag XJS. It was damaged and repaired. I owned it for 3 years and it ran for 18 months of that time. Things kept breaking and were very expensive to repair and there was the smell of fuel that could not be remedied. I sold it for less than half what I paid for it.

[baltobernie]

From their website:

• "A TrueFrame inspection and report does not include an evaluation of a vehicle’s mechanical ... condition, and in no way guarantees the safety of a vehicle or that any and all prior repairs or existing damage will be identified."

Unless this is a one-of-a-kind car, you might be better off looking for a better example.

[davery]

From their website:

• "A TrueFrame inspection and report does not include an evaluation of a vehicle’s mechanical ... condition, and in no way guarantees the safety of a vehicle or that any and all prior repairs or existing damage will be identified."

Unless this is a one-of-a-kind car, you might be better off looking for a better example.

Here is what they say are their "Structural Standards",
All structural issues listed below WILL FAIL the TrueFrame Structural Standards
TrueFrame Structural Standards
The TrueFrame Used Vehicle Measurement Standard (UVMS) +/- 5mm
1. Under Body Frame and Structure.
Symmetrically (comparative measure from side to side and point to point), the
length, width and height when measuring under hood and under body
measurements utilizing a symmetric squaring process must measure to a
tolerance of no more than +/- 5mm
2. Welded on Structural Body Parts.
Any welds, torn, separated or re-welded will not pass TrueFrame Report Structural
Standards
3. Upper body Pillars to include A,B,C,D pillars.
Any compromising damage in relation to the inner/outer pillar structure. To
include, but not limited to body/fiberglass filler, physical damage, or areas of
previous repair.

The question is can they actually inspect everything in the standards? And actually it is sort of a one of a kind car. It is the only color combination with the options I want in the entire country currently for sale.

Any other suggestions?

[klweimer]

The dealer should be willing to let you take it to a frame shop for a real inspection. What kind of car is it?

[baltobernie]

True Frame probably has agreements with car dealers that allow their inspectors to use the dealer's lift and other facilities.

• "width and height when measuring under hood and under body
  measurements utilizing a symmetric squaring process must measure to a
  tolerance of no more than +/- 5mm"

Take a 10mm open-end wrench out of your toolbox. Ask yourself if that gap would be acceptable on a critical unibody component.

Regardless of the True Frame report, I strongly urge you not to buy this car until you take it to an independent alignment shop and ensure that the wheels are square and true.

[davery]

There is a dealer that specializes in unibody frame alignment, but it is 55 miles away from the car. Unfortunately, even if they would let me take the car to the dealer - I live 430 miles away from the car. On top of that, the selling dealer (which is not affiliated with a manufacturer) has stopped replying to my questions.

Question - if the car was able to successfully have all 4 wheels aligned, would that give me reasonable assurance the unibody frame is straight?

[baltobernie]

Yes, if the four wheels are where they're supposed to be, then the repairs were "probably" done correctly. There's very little adjustment available on modern cars.

But without knowing the extent of the original damage, you're still looking at a questionable purchase. Realize that if a car is tagged "structural damage", the value of the vehicle plummets by as much as 50%. Branded dealers won't touch them; neither will CarMax and others. This discount affects resale value when you're done with it, too.

The car can be put right, but you don't know how bad it was to begin with. You could be facing premature corrosion, wind and water leaks, etc. Thre's also the question of safety; yes, you can bend metal back to its original shape, but how will it react to another hit? Will it crumple according to the original design, or will the forces be transmitted asymmetrically? Maybe you'll be lucky ....

[davery]

Thanks for all your thoughts on this.

So I'm not sure this makes any difference (I haven't thought this through yet), but I found the original owner when the damage occurred in California. He told me in May of 2015 the car (a 2012 E550 Mercedes Cabriolet) was hit from behind, but the airbags didn't deploy. He said they had the car repaired by their insurance at a Mercedes dealer and there was no structure damage. He said they have a lot of cars and they sold it 4 months later.

Apparently the car ended up at an auction and this is where it was visually inspected by the seller (auction house?) and determined the car had structural damage. The car was then bought by the current used car dealer in Oct 2015, titled in North Carolina and sold. I did a BBB check and there appears to have been a complaint against the dealer about this very car, as it appears the Carfax was updated in Dec of 2016 (after the sale) to include the prior damage. The buyer had driven about 6,000 miles by this point and had the vehicle serviced at a North Carolina dealer several times, but made no mention of a malfunctioning vehicle. It appears the buyer of the car did complain to the BBB about the (now) diminished value of the vehicle and selling dealer bought the car back. The BBB reports the dealer did not "failed to disclose damage to vehicle and noted that vehicle had not been damaged by collision on the NC Damage Disclosure Statement", which is interesting because when the buyer bought the car the Carfax was clean.

Exact words from the Carfax report:
Vehicle sold at auction
Structural damage reported
Unibody damage disclosed by seller
based on results of a visual inspection

Thoughts?